Conversational Selling: How to Use Facebook Messenger To Close Sales


– Hey everyone, welcome
to this master class on conversational selling. I’m Kyle Jepson with
HubSpot Academy and I’m here with Ryan Deiss. Today’s master class is
presented by HubSpot Academy, HubSpot’s official learning
resource and a worldwide leader on marketing and sales education. Head over to academy.hubspot.com
to take advantage of our free certifications and learn how to grow your business and your career. The official hashtag for today’s course is HubSpotMasterClass. If you’re on Twitter use
hashtag HubSpotMasterClass to join in the conversation. If you’re with us here on
Facebook, just comment down in the bottom. We’ll be monitoring those
and taking questions as they come in. But Ryan, thanks for being here. – Yeah, thanks for having me. – For anyone who doesn’t know, Ryan is the Co-founder and CEO of DigitalMarketer.com which is the leading, the number one? – Absolutely. – Absolutely. – Far and away the number one. – Far and away. – Yes, I can say that
’cause who’s gonna argue with me right now while we’re here. – That’s true. That’s true. For digital marketing stuff. – Yeah all things digital marketing. – All things digital marketing
and then you also like, own half the internet, I understand. – Damon John, who’s a friend
of mine, was kind enough to put that in his book
and I have no problem whatsoever accepting
that, even though it’s not even remotely true. – The internet sounds good. – It’s pretty big and I
don’t own really any of it. Yeah it was a good lesson in hyperbole. – There you go. – So yes as long as somebody else says it, it’s not technically lying. – That’s true. – Probably still is, yeah. – Well but you can own it and
be like, I didn’t say that. He said it. And then your career in
digital marketing, this is my favorite part, launched
because you built a website to try to make some money
to buy an engagement ring. – Yeah my freshman year
of college, I met a girl, decided pretty early on
that she was the girl that I was gonna marry. Didn’t tell her that because
that’d be a little bit creepy at first but that was. That was my first motivation
was how do I make extra money. This was 1999, I was going to the University of Texas at Austin. You hear stories about Michael
Dell starting Dell computer company right across the
street in the dorm room across the street from where I was living. So I figured, hey if anybody
can do it, why not me, at least make a little bit of money and by the time graduated,
yeah had made enough money, bought the ring,
proposed to the girl, she said yes and then a business was born. It was a good time. – Business and a family. – That’s fantastic, you get both. – Yes both for the price of
not having really any fun at all in college but very much, very, very much worth it. – There you go. All right so today we’re
talking about conversational selling which is a really exciting idea but when we’re talking
about this, what’s the goal with conversational selling? – So really the goal that I’m looking at for everybody who’s watching is just to help you engineer a
lot more high converting conversations ideally from the traffic and leads that you’re already receiving. We’re gonna talk about that
a little bit ’cause so much of what’s talked about
in marketing is how do we get more traffic and how
do we get more leads. What I’m gonna show you is
how do you get more sales from what you already got. You got a lot of stuff going on so this is for you here if you’re a marketer and your sales team is
beggin’ for a lot more leads and a lot more conversations,
this will be a new way for the marketers out
there to get hopefully add additional value over and above
what they’re already doing. For the sales folks out
there, this is maybe a new way of thinking about selling
and really where I believe selling is going in the future. So many people who are in
sales and who have been in sales for a while
believe that selling really can only occur over the phone. I don’t know about you, I get
irritated when my phone rings. Even if it’s like my Mom. It’s like text me. So much of human communication
is now taking place through these other chat
channels, whether it be SMS or Facebook Messenger. So if you’re in selling,
learning how to really use those channels to close
the sale is also a part of it so we’re gonna talk
a little bit about that and if you’re an agency,
then hopefully maybe add some additional arrows
to your quiver in terms of strategies you can have for you clients so that’s really the goal
I’m looking to accomplish. – Awesome, love all of that and if you’re on the marketing side
whether you’re an agency or a marketing team, if
you want the sales people you’re working with to love
you, it’s not really about the number of leads, it’s about the number of sales they close. – Exactly, if you can get
tee up a conversation, they’re gonna be thrilled. They’re not necessarily
looking at the total number of leads and look, if you’re
a solo, I’m sure we got solos that are out there
where you’re a company of one, or you’re maybe a
sales and marketing team of one, then I guess
the good news is you get to watch and learn about
all of this ’cause you kind of get to own the entire
process that we’re going to be covering here. – Yeah and honestly,
anyone who’s in that boat, this is an exciting time
to be in that boat because you can really set the
trajectory for what the future of marketing and sales
is going to look like. – Yep, so let’s dive in. Let’s talk about kind
of where we’ve come from and how we’ve gotten to where we are today so I guess the question that I would have for people is what do you
think is the highest converting sales medium of all time? There’s been direct mail and radio. There’s TV infomercials,
there’s obviously the web and I don’t necessarily
have data to back this up. I think it’s probably fairly
known and fairly obvious when you think about what
converts the highest, what converts the highest
not necessarily what scales the best, what converts the
highest, you really can’t beat face-to-face, right? When you’re face-to-face
with somebody, you can see their, you kind of see where they are. If they’re not quite
believing you, they’re like, eh, I don’t know, you know like ah, I need to say something. You can respond in real time. They can tell you the objections they have and you can try to
overcome those objections in real time. You can have a conversation. You can find out specifically
what is that one thing that they really, really, really want and you can tailor your
messaging around that so I think without a
doubt, face-to-face is the highest converting
sales medium of all time if you got a salesperson who
knows what they’re doing. So why doesn’t everybody
just make every single sale face-to-face, right? Well, the problem with
face-to-face selling and you got marketing
and marketing Mike here who’s gonna be like, yeah but
face-to-face doesn’t scale and that’s so much of what we’ve done in the digital landscape has
been saying how do we take what works in traditional
sales and traditional marketing and how do we get it to
scale and we’re gonna talk a little bit about scale
and this idea of scale but I kind of want us to
pause for a little bit and just kind of ponder why
is scale the goal anyway? Why does scale have to become the goal? Why is that the thing
where in most companies, you can shut down just about any idea if you simply say, ah, it doesn’t scale. That’s the one thing
where, and everybody’s like well I guess it doesn’t scale. – If it doesn’t scale then why do it. – I mean, that’s what
people, they don’t have to use words, they’re just
like, it doesn’t scale and they start mumbling and
gesturing to one another, right? So that is kind of the ultimate thing but why is this the case, right? Why did scale become the
goal and specifically, when did not talking to our
customers not become the goal? Now I’m a marketer and
I’m a digital marketer. I run DigitalMarketer.com. I’m all about digital marketing. I’m all about marketing automation. This is not saying
marketing automation is bad but I believe that what
we’re dealing with right now is this over reaction
of we sure would like to never ever have to talk
to our customer ever again. If somebody, a lead could
come in and if they could just get this automated follow
up and then they magically and mechanically kind of
walk through this process and then they were spit out
the other end where they’re happy and we have our money,
wouldn’t that be great. – They just put in
their credit card number and we extract the money out. – Exactly, they never talk to us. We never talk to them. We get to maintain our little bubble and wouldn’t that be great. So much of marketing is
in pursuit of that goal and I think we have to ask ourselves, why? Why has that happened? How have we gotten here? How have we gotten here and specifically, if you’re gonna kind of
adopt my presupposition which is that this is not
necessarily a good thing, who’s to blame? Well I believe that digital
marketing is to blame. – What? – Yes I believe that digital
marketing and I think I’m uniquely qualified to
blame digital marketing and not have people get
overly upset with me ’cause again, I am a digital marketer. I love digital marketing. I think that it’s great and
in fact, I think the reason that we have this over
emphasis on scale is because marketers have done such a great job. Because HubSpot has trained
so many people on how to do inbound effectively
that there’s just almost too many leads coming to
the top of the funnel. We’re at this point as
businesses where there’s so many leads coming in that
we have to automate things. We have to say, yeah but that isn’t going to scale because of this
influx of leads because marketing has done almost too good a job at putting things into
the top of the funnel and so I think we have to
ask ourselves, who else has that problem and how have
they solved the problem? I think about ah the problems
are just too many people around us who want and
are maybe interested in our services. Where my brain instantly went was the DMV. If you’ve been there, there’s
a lot of people who need to get their driver’s license renewed. Maybe they need to take a driver’s test, things like that so
they show up to the DMV and there’s invariably there’s
like two people up there working with those and like
a thousand people who need to talk to them so what do they say? Hey take a number. The DMV has dealt with the
overabundance of leads by saying, take a number, sit over there and wait. That’s not a great solution
when you think about Apple. This isn’t as big a problem, unfortunately for them as maybe it was a few years ago but anytime a new iPhone
would come out, people would be camping out. So Apple’s saying just stand in line. Stand in line and wait
until it’s your turn to give us money, right? Marketer’s solution to
this has been, I think, maybe a lot more elegant and that solution has been the funnel. That’s been the solution. We have the leads come into the top and then we’re gonna march
them through this series and at some point, they’ll
buy and less people will come out of the bottom. That’s sort of the idea of the funnel but if you look closely,
any graphic of a funnel, right, any graphic of a
funnel, I just don’t care which one you picked, I’ve
kind of selected a handful of them, they all look the same. A lot of people at the top. Very few or in many cases,
like one person at the bottom. So you’ve got all these
people at the top and then at the bottom, you really
only wind up with one and what I think is important to remember is our own
models have taught us to expect low conversion rates. – We lose people at every step. – Every step you’re gonna lose ’em. Every step people are gonna fall out and I’m not saying that
that isn’t accurate but our own models have
told us not only is this to be expected but it’s how it works. It’s just a fact of life. So when your own model is
saying that conversion rates are going to be low, we
shouldn’t be surprised that conversion rates are low, right? We’re beginning to optimize
and I love Andrew Chen who is one of the best
growth people out there, one of the best minds in
growth and marketing out there. I believe he still heads
growth, the growth team at Uber. He wrote a post a few
years back called The Law of Crappy Clickthroughs, he
used a word other than crappy but my Mom may be watching – Or your kids. so I’m going to keep it PG-13. – Exactly but the basic idea was that in any new advertising channel and in any new marketing
channel, the effectiveness of any ad is going to decline dramatically in a relatively short period of time. The example that he
gave was the banner ad. When the banner ad first came out in 1994, it had a 78% clickthrough rate. Think about that. The very first banner ad
had a 78% clickthrough rate. – That’s incredible, people
didn’t even know what it was. – Yeah they’re like this is, there’s a blinking thing, click, right? We’re all so Pavlovian, like,
ding, ding, ding, right? So that was the idea. The banner ad, in a very short period of time, it was down to a half of a point. A half a point so 1994,
78% clickthrough rate. 2011, half a percent clickthrough rate and that was in Facebook
which does a better job in kind of making their
ads, their banner ads look way more like content. Still, half a point is standard. He charted the same thing
with retargeting rate, retargeting ads are effective initially but they declined over time. Average landing page conversion
rates, did some research on this, 2.35%. That’s across a wide array of markets. I’m not saying, you
know you may be getting, if you’re watching out
there you may be looking and saying I’m doing a
much, much, much better job. That’s great, I would hope that you are. 2.35%, that means that what, math is hard. 97.65% of the people aren’t registering. That’s not so hot. I thought this was interesting, average email open rate, 24.8%. I believe that this is
incredibly high, actually in my experience. – Something to feel good
about, quarter of people. – But that’s yeah, exactly
but even in that, it’s like a quarter of the people are opening. That means the vast majority of people aren’t even
opening, much less clicking so that’s still not ideal
and this is the biggie. What is the percentage of
human beings who are actually excited to receive a phone
call from a stranger. They’re excited to receive a phone call from a sales professional. We did some math, did some research and determined this number to be at 0%. 0% of the people were actually
excited to receive this and this comes from nearly
four decades of having to put up with this crap as
I’m sure you have as well so what’s the solution? If clickthrough rates,
conversion rates are always going to be in decline,
what’s the solution? Well the solution has been
we gotta get more traffic. – Put more in the top. – We gotta get more leads. Scale, scale, scale so I
think that’s how we got here. That’s how we got here. Stuff worked really well in the beginning. It was really effective
and then when it became less effective which only
always happens about 100% of the time, the answer
is we must do more of it and what I kind of want
to suggest is this is why we’re all, marketers in
particular, this is why we’re on this kind of
vicious hamster wheel of doom that we can never seem to get off and every week, even if you have a win, you know next month you’re kind of starting back over at zero. You know that you’re always dealing with diminishing returns. You know it’s only
gonna get more difficult and that’s the reality that we’ve been in. I think that’s why marketers
have been frustrated. I think that’s why salespeople
get frustrated at marketers. That’s why you know, they’re
like the leads aren’t as good but it’s like yeah, but
you wanted more of ’em or you want the same number, right and marketers are dealing
with this law of crappy clickthroughs and salespeople
still need the same number of leads to hit their
goal so I think it’s time to try something new. I think we need to kind
of rethink much of the way that we approach this. Not throw it out completely. Nothing, and I think this
is so critical, all right if you were watching at
home or from your office please, I hope you don’t hear
me say that you should do this instead of everything else
that you’re doing right now. It is not that binary. You can do both. What I’m suggesting is
let’s try something that is really gonna emphasize
more the quality not just of a lead but of a conversation. That’s what we’re talking about. Conversational marketing
and conversational selling. In other words, how do we
get back to the face-to-face? How do we get back to
reclaiming and recovering these really, really high conversion rates? How do we get closer to that
as opposed to just saying now let’s do more? So that’s kind of what we’re
talking about with, you know we think about conversational selling. I wanna mention just
’cause any time I talk about this, people wanna talk tools. Everybody wants the you
know, they wanna know the software, what’s the solution. I’m gonna give you some
of the ones that we use but I hope everybody understands that at Digital Marketer, at least, we’re kind of tool agnostic. It really is about the strategy. An amazing tool with a bad
strategy is gonna fail miserably and yet a great strategy
deploying a rudimentary tool so I’m gonna show you how to
do conversational marketing and conversational selling using just good old-fashioned email. One-to-one, I’m typing
an email and sending it. That’s not some newfangled tool. Everybody has that one so
I’ll go over some tools but just I wanna throw
that caveat out there. Obviously if you’re watching this and you’re a HubSpot user,
HubSpot has LiveChat now. They have a chat tool they’re building in and it’s getting better
and better and better, becoming really advanced. I was very, very excited about some of the announcements
that were made at Inbound so if you’re using SalesHub,
you already have this. I would recommend starting from that. Drift is a company started
by, I guess, some former HubSpotters that they were really the ones to kind of introduce, at
least the first I heard, to introduce this idea
of chat for selling, not just chat for customer support or not just chat for customer success. That’s a lot of like intercom
and there’s been a number of other chat tools. Chat was initially like
talk to a live person and get questions answered. It wasn’t so much built for the sales side but there’s people who use intercom for that and then ManyChat. Manychat.com is a tool that you can use to really automate and build bots inside of Facebook Messenger. So the previous three are
chat tools for on-page and ManyChat is really designed more for Facebook Messenger. So that’s kind of what we’re looking at. On-page chat tool, Facebook
Messenger, email, all of these are conversational things that we’re gonna be diving in. So let’s talk about now
how you go about actually starting the conversation. So now I’m talking to you
marketers out there, okay? We’re not talkin’ about leads right now. We’re saying how do we actually
start the conversation. How do we tee up these,
we call an ideal sales conversation for the sales
team so they’re not necessarily measuring you in leads, they’re
excited that you’re kind of making a nice little warm introduction, a warm hand off. There are three conversation
starters that we look at. The first is Page To Chat
so that’s getting people who are already a visitor on your website to initiate and to start a conversation. That’s the first, talk
about how to do that. Email To Chat so getting
people who are already on your email list to
begin to chat with you, go back and forth via
email or another media and then Ad To Chat. How do you go straight from advertising to somebody talking to you
and there’s some really great, I know a lot of people
watching don’t do advertising. They don’t necessarily like
the idea of buying traffic. I can appreciate that but this is one that you may wanna give a shot to. So let’s talk about Page To
Chat so if you’re a marketer, how do you get the people who are already on your page to start talking to you. If you’ve been to pretty much any website on planet earth, especially
in the SaaS space, you’ve probably seen a button
in the lower right hand corner that looks something like this. All the different chat
tools have their own icon but they all tend to
look something like this, like a conversation bubble
that’s usually smiling at you. These have become ubiquitous. These are all over the place and part of the reason they’re
all over the place is because companies are beginning to realize that this idea
of conversational marketing and conversational selling is a thing but everybody’s doing it the same way. So everybody’s approaching this and saying and this is not to knock the folks at New Rock, they have phenomenal product but everybody’s kind of
doing the same type of thing. How can we help you today? Right, how can we help you today? Or when we first started
this at Digital Marketer, it was, hey there, have
a question, wanna chat? So that’s kind of what everybody’s doing. Everybody’s opening
question is hey, wanna chat. Hey, wanna talk, and the universal answer to this seems to be, nope. – No, leave me alone. – No I don’t, right, and we
should be surprised at this. You’ve probably been in a retail store and you’re looking for
a shirt and you walk in and that person says, hey
can I help you with somethin’ and what do you say to them? – No, I’m good. – Yeah, no, I’m good. – Just lookin’. – Well there you go. Nope, I’m just looking. I didn’t even have to
wonder, it is such an understood thing I was
able to type that out before even knowing what you
were going to say, right? That is an aspect of the human experience. We know that, right? You walk into a store. They say, can I help you with something, basically, hey do you
wanna talk and you go, nope, I’m okay, leave me alone. – Leave me alone. – Just looking. – Didn’t come here for
a social experience. – Right, I just wanna shop. Until that moment when you’re
ready and you have a question and then you can ask and
that really is the way that most chat is happening. It’s somebody who comes to the
site and they have a question and they engage and that’s good. That’s gonna keep happening but as a marketer, we
have to ask ourselves, how do we engineer those conversations. How do we drive those
conversations so we get more than just the people who show
up with a question already and what we found the
best solution for this is to ask binary questions. So to simply ask somebody, like
for us at Digital Marketer, we have a page that’s dedicated. One of our highest value
segments is digital agencies. So we have a page that’s
dedicated to digital agencies. We’re looking for agency partners at DM so if anybody arrives
on that particular page, we don’t say, hey how’s it goin’ if you have any questions we’re here. We say, quick question,
are you a consultant or marketing agency, that’s it. Quick question, are you a
consultant or a marketing agency and people can pretty
much answer yes or no. So if you were to walk in,
and I think it’s critical, anytime you’re doing
something online, the ultimate litmus test is would
this be weird if I were to do it in real life. Would it be kind of weird,
would it be kind of creepy, would it be ineffective if I
were to do this in real life or does it really mirror the
way that things would work in real life. So let’s go back to the
retail store, so you walk in and nobody really says anything at first but as soon as you kind
of start maybe pull out a shirt, somebody says, oh
hey, do you like that shirt? Now you’re not gonna say, no
I’m just looking, that’s weird. That’s not a normal response. You’re gonna be like, eh it’s fine. I thought it was kind of cool
or you’ll be like, yeah I do. Oh cool, wanna try it on? Here, let me grab that,
you can go look around. Now you’re engaged. – Do you have it in my size? – Exactly, now you’re
engaged in a conversation but you didn’t ask the
person, do you want to talk to a total stranger because
only nobody wants to talk to a total stranger. We’ve been taught as children
not to talk to strangers. That’s the thing. Don’t talk to strangers. Don’t take candy from
them and now in business, we’re strangers wanting to
talk to people wondering why they don’t want to talk back. That’s not how conversations work. We’ve been told not to do that. We have conversations with
people that we know, like and trust or we have
conversations with people who ask us a question
that’s nonthreatening. So think, right now,
what is a binary question and by binary, I simply mean a yes, no. It’s not, somebody doesn’t necessarily have an opinion about it. Are you a consultant or marketing agency? Somebody could say, nope. Okay, I know I probably don’t need to talk to that person because
they’re not gonna be a fit for this thing. Cool, I’ll leave you alone, right. That’s great, that’s
helpful, that’s filtering. I remember, you know like right now it’s Girl Scout cookie time and I don’t know if they’re doing the same
thing in the Boston area but at least in Austin,
Texas where I live, Girl Scouts are planted outside of every major restaurant,
outside of every drug store. – The grocery stores. – Yeah the grocery store and you walk in and they’re all like,
do you want to buy some Girl Scout cookies, like no, that’s okay. – Not what I came here for. – It’s not exactly what I
came here for, I’m good. I walked past some Girl
Scouts the other day and their question was, do
you wanna support the troops and I went, and I was ready to say no and then do you wanna support the troops, how can I say no to that question? Yes, yes, I’d like to. Okay well if you buy Girl Scout cookies, if you have some for
yourself, you can still buy Girl Scout cookies and we’ll
send ’em to the troops. Would you be interested in sending some Girl Scout cookies to the
troops or taking some home and I bought Girl Scout cookies. I had lots of Girl Scout
cookies but I bought more because again, it was a
question that I couldn’t ignore and it was a question that I
couldn’t necessarily say no to. So what is that question. I think marketers out
there, we’re writing copy. What is that for you and
kind of the next area where people come into play is they
think okay, how am I going to make sure that I don’t have
too many of these questions ’cause we’re gonna get to once you engage in the conversation, where
does it go from there but people ask at this
point, how do I make sure that I don’t get an
overabundance of these. First thing I will tell you. Don’t put chat on your home page at least in the beginning. – Which is what everybody is doing. – Everybody’s putting it on
their home page, exactly. If you have a giant team who
can respond to that, then great but I recommend not doing that. If you are, have it
trigger on the third visit so that if somebody comes
once, it doesn’t trigger it, if they come back again, it
doesn’t trigger anything, if they come back a third
time, now there’s some intent. You could do the same thing with content or you could only trigger it
on bottom of funnel content. So somebody’s reading a
post or a customer story and so maybe if somebody’s
reading a customer story about a particular industry,
you could ask ’em, hey are you in this industry. So the content can inform
the question that gets asked. We’ll talk more about
that or trigger on pricing or thank you pages. Just get deeper into the funnel. – Yeah before we move on,
I wanna take this question from Arlette, she asks what
happens when the sales team isn’t online, does someone
have to man the chat 24/7? – With just about every
chat application out there, you can set hours of operation
when the chat is available and so if you say only have the chat come on between like nine to five
when you have salespeople there, it’ll only come on nine to five. It won’t be visible or you
can it to where it’s visible but it says hey, our
people are out for the day but you can leave us a message here. – Right, yeah, I know in
the HubSpot messages tool, you can set your offline
message, customize that and ask for people’s email
and say, we’ll follow up with you when we’re back. – Exactly it’s kinda like voicemail. – Right. – So no, you don’t have to
be there 24/7 but it kind of makes the case when you
see that how well this works for maybe having people who
are overseas, being able to man it for you or man it or person it, human it for you, you
know what I’m saying. So that’s the first strategy. That’s just talking about
how do we take the visitors that we already have, the people
who are already hanging out at our website and how do we engage them. The big lesson is don’t ask
them if they wanna talk. Ask ’em a binary question. Think about what that is. We’ll talk about what happens
once the conversation begins, where you take it from there
and how you can automate that when we get to that in
just a second but for now, we’re talking conversation starters. The second strategy for
conversation starters is to leverage your email list. To take the people, ’cause
remember this is all about how do we get
more sales conversations from the traffic and
leads we already have. I wanna start from
there and so if we think about our email list, ideally, you have high-intent gated content. That’s really step one if
you wanna do this right. So what I mean by high-intent
gated content is the content itself informs what that
lead is interested in. So if you just have a piece
of content that’s how to do marketing good
because marketing is good and stuff, that doesn’t
necessarily inform any intent of the fact that the person
who downloaded this wants to do better at marketing;
whereas, the particular piece of content that we have here, that we use at Digital Marketer, you
know, want to build a rockstar marketing team, how to
structure and build an in-house or how to structure and build a modern, digital marketing team. We know that the only reason
that someone would register for this particular webinar
or register for this video series is because they want to build a digital
marketing team in-house. There’s no reason whatsoever
to register for this content. The content itself is a filter. The content itself is designed to one, yes inform what they’re
interested in, which informs the conversation but also
to filter out the people that maybe aren’t a fit for this. So that’s really step one, so specificity. Specificity of your lead
magnet, of your kind of middle of funnel, you
gated content is critical. If I’m a golf instructor
and I wanna get more, I’m not gonna say how to
golf more betterer, right? I’m gonna say how to drive,
I’m gonna have one that’s how to drive the ball 10 yards
further, have one how to never three putt again,
’cause somebody downloads never three putt again,
I can follow up with them and I know we’re talking about putting. Somebody downloads something
on driving the ball farther, I know this person wants
to out drive their buddies. The content informs the conversation. – And using it as a jumping
off point for the conversation. – Exactly. – It’s huge as opposed to
the typical hey so I’m the sales guy, what were you interested in. – Yeah, I saw you downloaded this thing. Why did you do that? You shouldn’t have to wonder. The content should
inform exactly what I do and then you can send an email. So we’ll generally send
emails, send replies again, referencing back hey,
you downloaded this thing are you registered for this class on how to build an in-house digital
marketing team or how to do this very, very,
very specific thing. I’m guessing you wanna know how to do this very, very, specific thing and we’d love to help with
that, let’s talk about it. But the key is when you’re
sending these emails, the emails are not
designed to get somebody to click and go over to a webpage and buy. The emails are designed,
they’re specifically worded to elicit a reply, to start
a conversation via email and my favorite of all is
also the simplest of all. I call it my magic nine word email. My magic nine word email
and the formula is, the structure is basically,
are you still blank. Are you still looking to
grow your marketing team? Are you still looking to
build a marketing team? Are you still looking to cut your score by getting better at putting? The framework, the
structure of, are you still, is such a great setup
because one, it tells them that you know exactly
the thing that they want and they were the one that
really started the conversation. In downloading and
requesting that content, they started the conversation. You’re picking it up. Hey, remember how downloaded this thing, do you still want that? Now maybe the answer is, no
I don’t want that anymore but in general, why would
they not if they say that and that’s what we have,
people actually respond. So are you still looking to
train your marketing team? Some people responded back and
said, nope, I’m not anymore and then we’re able to respond
back and say, that’s fine. What else is goin’ on and anything else that we can do to help? You can tailor it. Other people were like, yeah I am. It’s funny, we will get people
that will actually apologize to us for not reaching out sooner. Think about that. When was the last time
you sent a broadcast to your email list and
people replied apologizing that they hadn’t gotten back to you yet? They don’t do that
because it’s not perceived as an actual real one-to-one
human conversation. – Right and I love that
everything about your nine word email here is designed to
make it feel that way, right? You can automate this and
we have experimented with that here at HubSpot where
the lead comes in, whatever, we route it to the right
sales rep, we send an email from that sales rep but we found it has to just be plain text. You make it HTML, you add design elements, it looks like a marketing
email, they delete it. – That’s a great statement
that you made there. I kept this example in here. I almost was gonna change
it because we actually made a mistake here when
we first did this so this screenshot goes back to 2016,
we were still experimenting with a lot of these ideas and if you look at the image, you can see
it has the company logo at the top. – Oh yeah and the social
sharing at the bottom. – None of that should’ve been in there. It should’ve just been pure plain text. It should’ve looked
exactly like it would look if you were emailing a friend. Pure, plain text. We’re having a conversation. This is not an email broadcast. – Right and there’s no dear
first name, my name is, our company does. – You don’t need to personalize it. Yeah, exactly, if you’re
gonna email, all you have to do is be like hey, and
sometimes the subject line is quick question, right? – Love that subject line. – Quick question or in this
case it was just checking in. Are you still lookin’ to
train your marketing team? So that, are you still, are you still. I know what it is that you
wanted and in particular, it nicely twists the knife a little bit. It suggests that you haven’t done this yet and you wanted to. Another variation is, have you yet. So there’s, are you
still, wanting to do this? Are you still looking to do
this and have you done this yet. So hey, have you built your in-house digital marketing team yet. So are you still, have you
yet, is a really great email formula for driving that reply but again, you will mess this
up if you put a link in there. Hey if you are, click on this link ’cause I’ve got something for you. Now it’s some piece of marketing. If you just write it, you
don’t even have to say, reply. If you just get an email from
someone asking a question, they know they need to reply
and so people will tell us, no I’m not but thanks anyway. People will apologize
that they hadn’t got back to us sooner. People will be like oh my god, yeah thanks for the reminder. – Your timing’s so good. – Yeah, oh my god, exactly. – How did you know. – And all of this
absolutely can be automated but it is emails not
designed to make the sale and it’s emails that are designed to initiate a conversation. So we’re automating that first part of starting the conversation and then, once the conversation has
begun, now we’re beginning to make it manual. – Yeah, so no, no reply at your company. It needs to be going to a
real person it sounds like. – Yeah exactly. Ideally and what you talked
about, and I know HubSpot does this, it’s not
coming from the company. It’s coming from an individual. It’s coming from that person
and then when they click reply, the way you super
screw this up, is when they click reply, it’s [email protected] – Right. – Stop doing that, take that off. If somebody wants to reply to an email and have a conversation, let ’em. – That to me is just so
crazy ’cause why do you send and email to someone you
don’t want a reply from? That’s like the foundation
of the whole technology. – What are we doin’? It’s saying I no longer want this to be a two-way conversation. I just want to shove my message and my desires down your throat and you either do what I ask you to do or unsubscribe, I don’t care. I mean, this is kinda heartless type of marketing where we see our
leads not as human beings, not as individuals. They’re all just little dots. They’re the little
stick figures at the top of the funnel and it’s
fine if we lose some. Heck, we need to lose some
of ’em ’cause remember that we’re only looking for one or two of them to trickle out of the bottom. We have to change our
mentality about this. This is not a funnel,
this is a relationship. This is a relationship, this is a journey. Now when you do get a conversation going, the beautiful thing is
if they’re not interested in that one particular thing
because you’re having a conversation, you can keep
the conversation goin’ and find out what they are interested in. This happens all the time
again, this is a screenshot. One of our salespeople
reaching out to somebody. They weren’t interested in the thing. It wasn’t a fit so they redirected and sold ’em something else, that’s great. – Well and that’s so
much, within the theory of inbound, we try to teach people at HubSpot Academy, we
teach them to be helpful. Before anything else, before you’re tryin’ to make a sale, before you’re trying to do anything like that,
add value to these people. Help them make progress
and then that builds trust and they’ll be more likely
to buy from you in the future when they’re looking to buy but right now, you can’t force somebody
to think that they want to buy something when
they’re not actually looking to buy something. And so you start this conversation and you treat them like a person, you build that relationship. – What a concept, I mean,
you treat them like a person. Why do we even have to say that? They are people. – What other option is there? – Yeah exactly but what we
do right now is we treat ’em as a number and I think that’s
kind of the mentality shift. Again, if you do this and you
do this well, I don’t mind if our leads get cut in half
if our conversion rates double. – Math. – Right, it’s that pesky math thing again. I don’t mind so much
especially if you’re paying. Heck, you’re probably more
profitable at that point. Also, and this is another
really, really, really kinda cool strategy that
we’ve done, sending out emails that aren’t just designed to get a reply. Sending emails, you
know it’s pretty common to send an email and
say, hey give me a call. Salespeople do that all the
time so we’ll put that in there. So this was a promotion that
we did for our big event that we do every year,
Traffic and Conversion Summit and it was kinda getting towards the end and we said hey, if you
wanna add some extra tickets, there’s three ways you
can get it ’cause tickets technically aren’t for sale anymore. You can just reply to this email. Again, what a crazy concept. You can give us a call and then we said, my favorite, you can click this link and it will open up Facebook Messenger. Facebook Messenger’s becoming one of the single largest
chat platforms out there and people are very comfortable with it. It’s where they talk to their friends. When we sent this out, the
three options, reply, phone or Facebook Messenger,
which one do you think got the most responses? – I know the punchline but my
guess would be an email reply. That seems super easy. – ‘Cause they’re in that
medium already, right and it’s easy, just click reply. Facebook Messenger got 50% of the replies. 50% of the conversations that came in, came through Facebook Messenger. The email reply was around
like 35, 40% and the rest of it was people picking
up the phone to call. – Which is amazing that
that even happened. – That anybody picked up
the phone to call, yeah. So that’s and I believe
that it’s trending that way so if you want to put a link in an email that will trigger a Facebook conversation that will basically open
up Facebook Messenger for somebody so they click
it, Facebook Messenger opens on their mobile device or on their desktop and now they can begin typing,
it’s m dot me forward slash whatever your page is,
whatever your company page is. So for us it’s m dot me
forward slash DigitalMarketer. For you guys it’d be m dot
me forward slash HubSpot so whatever your Facebook
page is, that will then trigger a conversation with them. So that’s a great way in
any email, if you want to start a conversation via
Messenger which we’re gonna talk about in just a little bit, that’s a great way to do it. – So on this real quick,
since you’ve got such a mix of people, like Facebook was clearly, Messenger was the winner. Do you take away the other options and channel everybody that way? Does giving all three
options, is that best? How do you think about that? – So the honest answer
is we haven’t tested it and I’m usually of the mindset
of humans are different people and respond in different ways. I seem to recall, again,
phone was over 10%. When something gets less than 5%, that’s when I think
it’s and it’s just kind of my own general rule of thumb, that’s when you’re like, this is beginning to get into statistical insignificance. We might be better off to drop this and see if we don’t get
an improvement overall. – Yeah ’cause you could do a
lot more than three options. – Yeah, I mean most of
the chat applications that are out there will
also give you a link that when somebody clicks
on this link, it will open your page and launch
a chat application. – But at a certain point,
you give ’em 25 options and they’re overwhelmed. – The confused mind says no. A confused mind says no. As human beings we’re pretty
good at remembering things in threes, I’m gonna talk
about that when we get into the actual conversation
here in just a second so that’s why we went with three options. Two that everybody knows and one new one. I was shocked. I truly, I was like, maybe 10, 15% of the people will go Messenger. The fact that it was over 50% was really, really, really shocking. So remember when we we’re
talking about this, the goal is to start a conversation. The goal is not to try to make the sale. The goal we’re tryin’
to start conversations and you can use platforms other than email and that’s where advertising
can also come in. Before I get into the
ad thing, any questions? – Yeah so we’ve had a few come through. This sorta takes us back
to the chat thing we were talking about before. Someone asks, what’s the
difference between chat apps and chat bots and which should I use? So I can handle the definition real quick. A chat app just lets you
communicate with people in real time on your website and a bot can moderate that
conversation, take care of it when a person isn’t
present, usually through predetermined options but
there are other ways to do it. Do you have advice on bots? – Yeah I’m gonna go
through how we build bots in just a second so I think
that distinction would be clear when I get into an example
here in just a second. – Yeah so hold tight, we’ll get there. Xavier or Javier perhaps,
any recommendations on timing between plain text emails sends from sales reps space on
high intent content download? So I think he’s asking
if you’re gonna have more than one touch, how many, how often? – Yes so people aren’t gonna
believe this but go back to when you first started dating someone. How often did you communicate? It was probably multiple times
a day so you really wanna stack that communication
early on so within the first five to seven days, I’d be
following up almost every day. You might send two the first
day and that’s not weird. It’s how we kinda deal
with human interaction. We’re accustomed to that and
when a relationship is new, the communication frequency is higher. Then later on and then you can begin to kind of pare it down. That, are you still, have
you yet, that one you wanna give a little bit of time. That’s really designed to
come a little bit later after somebody’s downloaded
and it could come anywhere from a week later, two
weeks later, 30 days later. If our lead flow to our sales
floor is a little bit lower than we wanna see for a particular month, we’ll queue up an are you still email and blast it out to everybody. Some of the people will
be, everybody’s who’s been on the list for maybe, ’cause
generally within the first 14 days, they’re still in an
active campaign so anybody’s who’s not in an active campaign and some of those people might’ve been
on the list for over a year and we’ll still be like,
hey are you still lookin’ at doing this and they’ll reply. – Especially when we’re
talking about these big things like building a team or starting
a team, that’s something they’re going to be thinking
about for a long time. I guess if your high intent
offers are more just like go out to dinner tonight or something,
that could be different. – Yeah if your high
intent offer is seasonal or timely, then that’s
not gonna work as well but don’t do that,
right, make it evergreen but it’s amazing, people
will start doing research sometimes years ahead of
doing the actual thing or it will get back burnered
and we have people like you know, we were looking
into doing this last year and some other project came
ahead but we just had a board meeting and now
this is a major initiative so let’s do it. – Or if they say, I was
really excited about this and then it got back
burnered then you can say, well, how do I help? What do you need to restart
that conversation internally? Cool and then Katie, one of
the biggest problems we have is visitors using the chat
for support and not sales. Any tips for us? The sales teams is sick
of getting requests for tech support and not qualified leads. – Again it goes back to
throttling the conversations and where you put that
chat so if you have it on your home page, you’re
going to get a lot of support. If you just go in there and
you just put have this little thing appear on every page on
a website, then guess what? You’re gonna get a ton
of support requests. Be strategic about those
pages and also don’t have the question be, wanna chat? It goes back you know, people
are like yeah I wanna chat. You guys screwed me, you know. If the question is, if you
ask a very specific binary question then you’re the one
that’s driving the discussion so it goes back to location
of where your chat, of where you’re kind of placing the chat and also that first
question that you asked. Asking a binary question that’s
gonna start the conversation that you wanna have, not
necessarily the one that they wanna have, it still is gonna happen. It still is gonna happen and
so having your salespeople will say, what we tell
ourselves people say is, gosh sorry, that’s a really great question but it’s over my head. Let me loop somebody else
in and they will redirect that conversation to
somebody else but do it in a way that’s kind of self-deprecating and get some answers they want. – And Katie, I would
mention too that the HubSpot messages tool, I can’t speak
to the other tools as well, but because it’s connected
to your HubSpot database, you can have that only appear to people who are not
customers or you could have a different one that appears
to customers ’cause we know who’s visiting your page
and you can be smart about it and make sure you’re routing them to the person who’s actually
gonna help them with what they’re most likely
to need help with. – That’s fancy. I didn’t know you guys did that. – He said it’s fancy. – I learned something today. Great so let’s talk about now
again, we’re still talkin’ about how do we get these
conversations goin’, talkin’ about Ad To Chat. In Facebook, there’s an
ad unit called Lead Ads so you can have somebody click
on an ad, fill out a form and immediately begin
the conversation, right? So if somebody fills out
the form and it’ll trigger an email to them, it’s like
hey I saw you filled this out. Are you, and you can start
the same type of conversation. If a conversation works, it works. If a conversation works in
real life, you can model that conversation for your
chat and your chat bot. You can model that conversation
for your email follow up ’cause email follow up is just
kind of a delayed chat bot sent over email, you know what I’m saying? So you can model it. That’s a good way to do it. There’s also the Messenger Ad unit. A lot of people don’t realize
that right now, you can do Facebook advertising where
somebody clicks on the ad as opposed to going
over to a landing page, it pops up Messenger and
that right there could get the conversation going. We did this recently again. We had a sale going and
we were able to generate 300 plus conversations for
under eight hundred bucks. On this particular campaign,
the value per conversation which is a metric I believe
everyone should be tracking. I think that is one of the future metrics that everybody will be tracking. Cost per conversation,
so a new type of CPC. Not cost per click. Cost per conversation and
value per conversation. For us, in this particular
campaign the value per conversation was $100 so do the math. $800 spend, 300 conversations
at an average value of a hundred bucks, that’s
a pretty phenomenal ROI. You’re talkin’ about $30,000 plus ROI on less than $800 a spend. That’s an extraordinary example. They don’t all work that well. – But still. – But it came from, it literally
came from this campaign we showed here. Ask us, people clicking on
an ad, pop in a conversation, having it and moving on. – And that’s something
to think about ads now. We need to rethink the
way we think about them because there’s a long
time when anyone who is an advocate of inbound
marketing would say advertising, that’s terrible, that’s terrible but now advertising can
be so contextualized and so helpful and shown
just to the right people that it’s actually like
a new wave of inbound. – Yeah and if you have it
look like the posts you would be making organically, then
really it’s not advertising, it’s more content amplification. It’s making sure that the
content that we’re putting out there is seen. – Right. – We’re paying to have our
content pushed to the top because there’s so much noise. – Right and so as long as
your content is actually gonna help the people you’re
trying to reach, as long as you’re gonna be relevant
and helpful and human to them, then it’s great, go for it. – Yeah far better to see
your content than their broke brother-in-law’s political rant. In Facebook, you can now do tagging. It’s actually gotten
pretty sophisticated where if it is a customer support
request, then somebody could go and kinda tag it a certain way and so a different person
on the team would go and have these kind of
multi-threaded conversations and this Messenger is
only gonna get better but really that’s where I
would use a tool like ManyChat if you want to pull in bots,
if you wanna have better segmentation, it can be
really, really effective to do that. It could be a really
effective tool in doing that if you wanna get big
on Facebook Messenger. All right, you have a conversation. Marketing has done its job. You haven’t generated a lead but they’ve generated a conversation. – Which is way better. – Yeah now what? Now I’ll give you the
five critical questions that I have our sales teams ask. These are the five
critical questions where if you ask these, it generally tends to result in a sale. So as you’re goin’ through, we’re now kind of transitioning from
conversational marketing into conversational selling. The first question is are you this person and if you recall, that was
actually the first question that was asked on the marketing side to elicit the conversation. Are you an agency or a consultant? So there’s actually this
question one should actually be accomplished by marketing to
get the conversation started. Are you still interested
in building a team? What you’re kinda subtly asking is, are you a decision maker? When you set up that, are
you still, you’re subtly asking are you the type of person who’s actually a fit for this. Getting confirmation on that. Question number two, so tell me more. What’s goin’ on? Dig a little deeper. Show genuine interest,
again, you’re talking to a human being. It doesn’t so much matter what they say. It’s not like you’re taking
notes for the purposes of segmentation and big data. You’re just actually, you know,
great, so you are an agency? That’s fantastic. Do you specialize in a
particular service category or a particular niche market
or are you more full service? What do you do? It’s just a normal human
conversation, like tell me more. I’m genuinely interested in you. Question number two, what
brought you here today? And so again, the conversation’s
like, that’s awesome. Full service, great so what’s goin’ on? What brought you here today? What are your goals? What do you think we
could accomplish together and what I recommend
that every salesperson do at that point is to kinda
pick three big benefits. Pick three big benefits
say, so when they say, what brought you here today? I can tell you I know
for us, we’re really good at helping agencies attract
to get more clients, scale and systemize their
business so they can kinda begin to extract themselves from it or really increase their retainers and their retention and
their recurring revenue. Between those three, is there kinda one of those that fits in with your goals? So that’s where we’d have that question. Then you get into, this is
one of the best questions that you could ever ask in
sales, what do you know about us? What do you know about us? There’s almost not a bad answer. There’s almost nothing they
can say even if they’re like well, I heard you guys are terrible. The fact that they’re there suggests that they’re not unsold. So you can be like yeah,
we’ve had our growing pains in the past. We’ve had our issues and I’m proud to say that’s not the case anymore but one thing that is
really nice is you mentioned you wanna do x, y and z and we can help you do x, y and z. If they’re like, I don’t
know anything, you could say, cool, that’s why we’re
havin’ this conversation. If they say, well my buddy, Fred said that you guys are amazing. Oh Fred, really, yeah,
oh yeah, Fred’s great. What’s nice is it doesn’t
matter what they say. It just keeps the conversation going and allows you to inform that and finally once you know what they want, once you’ve identified that your product or service is a vehicle that can take them from where they are now
to where they want to be, the highest converting
close that I’ve ever used is want some help with that? Cool so yeah, so you
want this, we do that. Want some help? – Let’s bring these two things together. – Yeah and when they say, yeah great. Visa, Mastercard or Discover. Or hey great, I’ll be
right back, let me go get an order form. Let me go get this thing, don’t leave. That’s where you go into
the flow so when we’re kinda bot-tizing this, I don’t
think that’s a verb. – It is now. – Yeah it is now so I’ll kinda
walk through our bot ’cause you talked about the bot being
the sorta automated version of this chat so at Digital
Marketer, if you go to our page about agencies. Quick question, are you an
agency or a marketing consultant? If somebody says yes I am
then we’re gonna move on to question two, that’s
great, tell me more. In this case we say, that’s great. Are you just getting
started or have you been at this for a while and the
way that we have our bots set up, if somebody says,
if they use phrases like long time, a while, then we’re gonna trigger
one particular response. If they say, just getting
started or it’s a startup, we kinda have these key
word phrases in there and pretty much any automated
bot’s gonna have this. Then you can respond, so in
this case, the response was I’m fairly new, about two years in. So if the word new appeared
anywhere, we were gonna trigger, well welcome to the community. Smiley face, hopefully we can help you reach your goals even faster. So everything that you’re
seeing here would be automated by a bot but notice that it’s still following the same conversation flow. So this is marketing, this is you. You can build this part out. That’s what you’re beginning to do and initiate some of the
selling for the sales team. Hopefully we can help you
reach your goals even faster and speaking of goals, what is
your top priority right now? So now we’re at question number three. What brought you here today? What are your goals? Remember I said you should
give ’em the big three? So he said, need more leads,
I need more leads and clients. I’m ready to systemize and scale. I want to grow my retainers
and recurring revenue or somebody could say all of the above and the way the chat is
set up, they would actually click one of the bubbles. If they say, for example, I
need more leads and clients, that’s great, we can
definitely help with that. Spoiler alert, if they clicked
on any one of these things, the response was gonna
be, that’s great, we can definitely help with that
because we know for a fact that we can definitely help
with all three of those things. I think we have it set
up to where if they said all of the above, it says,
I love the way you think or something like that. If they said, not sure then that’s fine, that’s why we’re here. And then you get into any
interest in seeing a demo of our partner resource portal. I’d love to show it to you. Now we’re getting into
kind of that first call to action where the hand
off between marketing and sales happens. If they say, sure let’s do it. Awesome, let me see if
I can track someone down and that’s where we tell
our chat bot, okay, go round robin someone and let’s
get a human being now to engage in this conversation and give them an opportunity
to schedule a demo in case the human doesn’t
get there fast enough. – Right. – And so we’ve gone through
the first three questions and that can all be handled by a bot. All three of those questions
can be handled by a bot. When we get to question four, what do you know about the company? That’s where I think a
human should be there. That’s where I think a
human should be there and then you want some help,
that’s obviously a human. So generally the hand off
from human to bot is gonna start at step four. The way that we would
have it, it’s set up. So when you’re creating your bots, just keep those things in mind. Kyle, what I’ll leave
you with, bots are really for filtering, they’re
not for closing the sale. If you’re in sales,
don’t be afraid of bots. They’re not going to
put you out of business. They should be used by marketing
just as email automation should be used though to keep
the conversation flowing, to keep things steady and just
again, some final thoughts. I rejected the notion of B2B versus B2C. I think you’re always selling to humans and if you keep that in mind, it’s H2H. We’re all in the human to human business. You’re gonna keep it conversational. If you remember that humans
are relational beings and they want to talk to
people but on their terms. If you remember that
marketers built funnels and humans don’t actually like them. They don’t like being
ordered and put in lines. Remember the better experience
is always going to win. Automation is great. It’s reduced cost. It has increased scale
but it has come at a cost and it’s come at a cost of
dehumanizing the experience which is where we’ve
lost the conversion rate. So sometimes it’s good
to trade a little bit of automation for higher conversion rates and then finally if it
would be weird to do in real life there’s a good chance that its days are numbered. If the strategy that
you’re deploying online, if you were to bring that into real life and if it would super weird
then probably not a good idea. So final thoughts, I
believe the future belongs to companies who are willing
to invest in real live, one-to-one, human to human interactions and if you’re willing to do
that, then I think you’re gonna be well positioned. I think the technology that’s
facilitating this is still in its early days. It’s getting better and better and better and I think we’re in a very exciting time in both sales and marketing
if the two groups can learn to work together especially, it’s gonna be really, really great. So that’s what I have. I hope that was helpful. – Yeah that was great. – Here’s where I live up on the internet. I’d love to connect with
everybody out there. – Yeah great, we’ve got just
a couple minutes left here. Here is Ryan’s contact. Do you have a preference, these three? – I will tell you Facebook
is handled by my team. Twitter and LinkedIn is actually me. – There ya go. – So if you wanna be connected
with people on LinkedIn, if you do, please tell
me that you saw this. Do a message ’cause we got
a lot of LinkedIn requests and it’s hard to know. – So no just generic LinkedIn requests. Say hey, I say you on the HubSpot please. – Yeah master class,
tell us you saw us here. – For those of you who had
questions we couldn’t get to, hit up Ryan directly. – Yeah hit me up. I’d be happy to answer ’em
and I’ll be, also hit up the hashtag, I’ll be active
there for the next little bit answering questions there as well. – Awesome, great. Well thank you and thanks
everyone for joining. – Thank you for having me.

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