Labour Export Saga Deepens| NBS Topical Discussion



welcome back hundreds to watch in the morning reason NBS television welcome aboard in case you've just joined us my name is Simon Conway Angela and well in this edition of the tropical discussion we continue exploring the different dimensions to a story that's created a storm ugandan are up in arms over revelations that actually some of our cows are trafficked all are assigned to work abroad as migrant workers but they end up being tortured working long hours and being underpaid and under certain circumstances they've also been certain cases of reported deaths we want to ask ourselves what really went wrong they've been every intervention the minister of gender lab and social development has come out to say that the reasonably afford to streamline this business there is an association that is overseeing the recruitment and the export of labor abroad while Parliament is also playing its oversight role in this but as the saga depends we ask what really went wrong that we need to fix as urgently as possible well this morning I'm joined by Enid number of executive director for Uganda association of external recruitment agencies alongside honorable we named Parker owner Bob Parker J was among the MPs who traveled to the Arab Emirates to examine and ascertain the allegations of torture sexual abuse and murder that happens in the Arab countries welcome the ADIZ thank you thank you for coming negative well you were a fact-finding mission and when you returned you went silent what did you discover that you didn't want to tell us first of all I'd like to thank you for inviting me to discuss this very serious topic I am a member of the gender committee in the parliament and we have four several on several occasions we have asked the Saudi Arabian government to go and visit our girls in Saudi Arabia but about four times our committee has been denied and I want to state it for a fact that Parliament under the general committee has been denied on several occasions from NGO in Saudi Arabia so at one point we went to Dubai with the Foreign Affairs Committee who about eight members of parliament and we visited our embassy in Abu Dhabi but what we found in Abu Dhabi was really very alarming by then the ambassador was mighty funny there was a lady called mad fun and she gave us a report of 48 you Ganon's what died in in just a period of eight months and of these 48 you gardens 35 had committed suicide and she father told us that some were actually buried in the desert because they do not know who had brought them I think those had been trafficked but some had been brought back home to uganda but we also discovered that even our embassy in abu dhabi does not have the capacity to handle these situations one we do not have a rescue home these girls go to the verandah of the of the embassy to seek for for help from the from the officials in the embassy there is no money there is no budget for these girls within the embassy to handle these situations and exporting labor to countries all don't have bilateral diamonds when these you Ganon's committed a fond committing an offence o14 in this situation they're there they're there they're there they find themselves under the libelous in those countries so for example if i if you ghana is accused of steal if the Libero in that country states this and that that is what is going to to be used so we discourage and actually as members of parliament of the Ghana parliamentary forum we are coming up with a motion to ban export of labour to any country that does not have a bilateral agreement – we want government to also ban exploitation of labour to all countries without embassies and well-equipped embassies to manage these situations but in the long run I think what is happening now what you are seeing on TV domestic workers exploitation of domestic workers and as a country we cannot do that lebecq's but this is a fact because of the high population cause of the levels of unemployment but specific sectors like domestic workers are the ones causing a lot of challenges and this is why we have a lot of media attention currently because one a domestic worker for example when went to Dubai when you give a girl to someone to walk in his own house you cannot access this girl after three months this girl because you left us after three months this girl becomes property of that person because they'll not allow you to enter these girls do not have access to banks they do not have access to mobile phones they do not have access to health care times so I think that the discussion now should be should we risk the whole industry because of one sector which is domestic domestic walk we have seen countries like Nepal in 2014 banning totally the exploitation of domestic walk we have seen countries like Philippines that has now banned a domestic walk to wait just because one Ugandan once or one Filipino was sexually abused and murdered just one but we have seen cases in Uganda so many are coming but we are doing nothing about it okay but in it do you think these are force allons is the situation really overhyped that it is actually in this this kind of impression that all is bad thank you very much a situation may appear hyped however as a rights advocate I'd like to say that we should not leave in any stone unturned for the reason that he's were so given a domestic workers need assistance and they need to be well looked after when we talk about safety in the workplace it also goes beyond into the household and as he has said getting into a household is quite a challenge if you want to look into issues of protection but maybe just to see something that he's not raised that as a result of your visit to UAE with uganda signed i mean an MoU tweak so I think you're aware of that and that will be the beginning of a very very good struggle to create safety for their Gunners already there to get amnesty but also these issues is raised issues of payment issues of safety all the things now are going to be well regulated with the UAE so when one person comes out to complain as a rights advocate it is right that we talk about it we have more than a hundred and fifty thousand you can dance in the Middle East as it were but if one your gun and suffers then the whole of uganda has suffered and i would really like to thank all the MP that have come out strongly on this issue yes during during space is quite an army not very damning in a sense as nearby exporters how do you feel about it where are the reinforcements okay we are very concerned when someone actor in comes out with an issue and as i was was explained yesterday we have a procedure we have a reception center and that team that is in the reception center works with the anti-trafficking police to receive the person at the airport so that as you know issues of evidence the evidence has to be received and managed as it arrives and the young lady was met we hope that when the anti-trafficking police is done with its investigations we'll get to know what exactly happened she agreed during was tortured no I don't because we have not received the report of the investigators but Lauren is not the first case that you're receiving to what of the other cases revealed we have had cases which have reviewed that there are issues of denial of salary people have come back without salary and we pursued them with the Ministry of gender and people have been paid we are people being denied food people have worked long hours those are things that have actually happened so when you define mistreatment that is how we are looking at our cases of sexual abuse deprivation and torture real I don't want to use the word to China to define it very well within the ambit of the the work that we are actually talking about but the issues of the provision not true keeping yes we've had cases of eating as well and the embassy in Saudi Arabia especially has been able to manage those cases because once someone leaves the country where a crime has been committed it becomes a challenge it now became it becomes an issue of Uganda versus that country and has to be dealt with in diplomatic terms and that is why we encourage the young women in Saudi for example make sure you get to the embassy so the embassy can handle those issues accordingly he's mentioned the embassy in Abu Dhabi and in the Middle East do the embassies will happen to have but we are aware that government is looking at setting up in Oman in Kuwait and all those other countries would you deny that cases of abuse are rampant especially towards domestic workers are rampant in you Eddie especially Jordan I think would like to be very specific about these countries it's like when Americans say Africa because when you say uá ê uá ê is not you're done United Arab Emirates is a different area Jordan is different Saudi Arabia is different so I would like us to be very Korea oh yes okay but everybody says UAE on your headline is saying UAE but I'd like to say just say me to east in this country those countries it is indeed alarming for us that people who are working in that domestic space the private space Dericks are being violated that when I agree but I can't say that a hundred percent the rights are being violated but there are instances where first cases be of her rights being violated what takes the spotlight for neglecting our workers who travel all the way expecting a better life the other side yeah well according to the laws of Uganda we take a spotlight there tortures the externalizes because there could be same contracts with the companies the other side and the Ministry of June delivered Social development's for example a sender has signed a bilateral with the Jordanian Kingdom as well as a Saudi Arabian Kingdom asked externalizes and the receivers the other side tick eople equal responsibility as well as the government's that have given us those licenses to work why did it take so long for you to come out as an element you know these evils are happening until Oliver Beatty numbers they came up actually note we've been talking to the press all the time in fact if you look at this document we've had this document done and prepared tips for people travelling abroad we are on about 90% of the radios giving tips to workers up here or is not sleeping people are calling and saying tell us about the right procedure of trouble tell us about the companies that we should go to but you'll be surprised since 2017 when the when our Secretariat was set up people still go to companies that are not registered my worry is what is it that we are doing that does not attract the ordinary uganda for them to feel that they are safer with a trafficker the Ministry of gender as we speak now has a licensed 151 companies in order to regularize the business and to ensure that as many companies are availa but you're gonna want to travel abroad but I cannot sure I get what's up some people are saying this company took me I am in company I'm in place and a company does not exist they tell you it isn't my beer is the plaza it is on Blue Room downtown like there are so many other players in this field that your Gardens feel have access what gaps should we be looking at when we're referring to Doreen's case one I think it's not only traffickers taking the girls out who are suffering even some companies actually are bringing back some girls all time so it's not about trafficking or which company externalizing externalizing no I'm comfortable calling it exporting probably but you see for us as members of parliament was stuck between the the poverty wages here at home and extreme exploitation abroad but what I think with Doran's case I think it's high time we consider a total ban of domestic workers wouldn't that be rational given the kind of revenue that the country risks yes the country is making revenue for example we are getting about 300 million u.s. dollars every year but at what cost because this alone this sector domestic workers could affect the whole led by export industry for example were talking about domestic sorry let me export today because of domestic workers because of the girls suffering there in and in the middle is but you are where we have signed on the to bilateral agreements according to me these are the agreements I know in Jordan and Saudi Arabia but we're still exporting to countries that do not have this agreement when you look at the ministry when we lifted the ban they created a system called Moore's and this system is supposed to monitor the girls abroad where they have gone where the company has deployed them but this system crushed I think it was between December and February the same velocity and February this year so we actually do not know official how many girls left the country during that time so there are so many gaps but the Ministry licensed 19 pretty pre-departure firms to help these young girls but still if as someone has already paid money to a company and this company has really given this person a visa and everything to leave the country even if you go through a pretty patch I don't think they can't block you if they find a fault for example the I don't think they're going to teach you different languages in one week I don't think they're going to teach you how to to behave in one week I don't think so actually would be blaming the live export industry firms yet the pre-departure firms are the main problem but personally I think it's high time we will consider total ban of domestic worker oh do you have tabs on the number of Ugandan is especially domestic workers in the countries where you are signed before I answer that I would like to say something about that of the total ban that our honourable Issa is that writing to propose in 2016 there was a ban to Saudi Arabia in particular and during that time more Ugandan girls lived to work so when you're talking about safety you know it's better to have a bad law then Lord no law at all you need to have a system within which to to start a process because if you ban now for example and you have maybe a hundred girls in all countries that they are existing in you're leaving them in limbo you need to be on board you need to have your law you need to work with it so let's continue experimenting on out those until that time when things update it's not even about experimenting but all those work like that International Labour Organization has had losses that 20 therefore 20 hundreds to date about making their lives of workers better not so in all countries you're exporting labor to members indeed indeed but what I'm saying is when you propose a total ban then you're leaving the ones were already there with no protection I would like you to consider that as well as their rights person as an MP you should stand for everyone who is there and intending to go so at whatever you propose is fair and proportionate that is my plea to you honourable fair and proportionate make sure that you are protecting at all levels the government that you serve the people that yourself need your protection honourable what money in those embassies like you talked about put money in the civil service to be able to employ the barrier zones to go because the regulations actually do talk about the body as if I even ask you another question I want to invite our viewers to be part of the discussion you can join Asuna our social media platforms and the hashtag is NBS morning breeze but if you want to get us on Twitter it's at NBS TV you can get us also on Facebook be part of the discussion we are asking what went wrong with live by expert in Uganda that today we are getting all sorts of sad stories horrific stories of torture and abuse especially of domestic workers in it yes how many companies do we have in the country that are registered and doing legit business 151 companies I've been registered by the ministry generally brand Social development's and let me explain this when a company is registered it means one it is recognized under your SPS as a company that is has the right to do business then on top of that it must have a license from the ministry to do externalization of labor most of the young people that have approached us tell us the company's registered I saw the registration chart and yet it's a company listed only to do business so the ones that actually even have a license number like our sink yeah they must also have they will also appear on the ministry's website maybe I can show this again the lodge appear on the ministry's website as if you go there now you know which companies are registered and I appeal to all the young people please check the youth the ministry's website because most young people have a smartphone 500mb they will check secondly the those companies are tracked by government because of a number of things that they go through before they actually licensed to do that business yes what do you make of the claim that most of the big labour externalising companies are owned by a cartel of the untouchables but it's very hard to even go deeper investigating them I keep hearing that allegations of the untouchables I have met a hundred and fifty-one directors out of the 300 if I may say and I have not met an untouchable maybe I don't understand the definition but for me they were all touchable maybe most like because even some members of parliament have companies but that doesn't mean this you know that stops MMO parliament from owning one but I will give a specific example like a company known as the by Explorer in 2017 you got a parameter for monetha phase we moved and closed this company because it had taken two boys abroad and dumped them in a hotel using tourist visas that was in Dubai so we went on close this company unfortunately we discovered that it actually did not have a license to export abroad labor but after closing this company within a period of two weeks the company was reopened the company belongs to a major cotton is the soil D so we did a period of three weeks he had now an official license and we wrote to the ministry we had copies of messages we had everything and up to now they they they they keep claiming they are still investigating so it's it's probably true there's political interfere in some way and because even if you are to bring a motion for example to Parliament I don't think it would be that easy this isn't that complex is the Evo in the label export industry that that complex for you to approach I don't think there's a lot of Evo in lab export because the country is benefiting our own boys and girls are benefiting but specifically domestic workers because the biggest focus is domestic work because actually us are the most money is in the domestic workers that is where the challenge is but Lebec sport we cannot do without Olympic sport this is a fact and there's no there's no country I think in the world that is not exporting limbo but when it comes to domestic workers the challenges are fab you and even our Minister what in your opinion has enabled these fake companies to strike one I think also corruption because during our investigation we discovered at the airport these people were smuggled or even at the border pay $100 to immigration of hisses so I think it is corruption I think also because no one is going to just come up and export the people who open these illegal companies used to work for those illegitimate companies they know the system because you're not going to wake up and get a contract a creep abroad even the companies we have in Uganda here most of them subcontracted by companies in Kenya to take people abroad so it's not easy to get a direct connection so most of the see for doing this illegal business are no naturally by companies because they break off from this company do you agree they're bad apples in your business I don't think there's any business object or another I think it takes a concerted effort and that's why I really applaud our MPs for taking this one very strongly because you need that the entire society to be part of it the Fourth Estate such as yourselves are doing a wonderful job and would like you to keep doing this job the ordinary citizen by the tips that we are giving them make sure you externalize by a company that is Regis that gives you a receipt because some people come and say I pay this amount of money and they do not even have a receipt we thank minister of internal internal affairs for their anti trafficking team and we was with our current Ministry of course millions realises world walkers passports no we don't know but it's it's a very popular allegation you need to substantiate on this you will hold their passports we don't withhold their passports but we use their passports in order to be able to get their documentation I will give an illustration for domestic workers many do not come with a travel document the travel document is processed by the company that is taking them abroad and used to get their visas they are after the power what else do you do because you just process get them on the plane we have had these allegations and after the MOA that was saying two weeks ago that is one of the things that that two ministries are greed will have to stop so it's been happening it's happening abroad not here so I cannot answer I'd say that is happening here the agents of the other employers appearance so you the employers the other side who contract you the contractors will hold passports what we've been made to understand is for those that live in a shared accommodation all their documents are kept in one place those who use shared accommodation because they don't have safety or their documents and that they have access to them at any time that's what we need when it comes to discover when it comes to issuing passports even in Dubai speak the person who is employing the Gulf will keep the passport it is like security so actually when if the girl wants to leave she cannot go because she knows they have something on her okay given the loopholes in the industry do you think the externalizes and promoting more than the slavery in the way they're doing since we're like I said we we have a challenge we are faced with the challenge between the high poverty wages in Uganda and extreme exploitation abroad so we are we are now in between us as members of parliament but specifically when it comes to wages that you cannot say lab export companies are exporting celebrity because we have some success stories we have and they are quite so many that are not talked about but we also have also some very unfortunate stories like we we have seen in the media like yesterday with the in its toll so the the main thing now is how do we how do we protect our abundance when you follow the image story yesterday's story that Doreen Doreen Doreen Doreen story what questions does it pay well the Doreen story there are two versions really right now you cannot know what is what because some people are saying it's not true some people are saying it is true but all in all it is it is easy to believe given the situation of domestic workers in these countries one you'll enter someone's home you will walk extra hours probably the whole day and times even the whole night after a certain period no one will be able to enter that that hit and you know these Arabs have very long offensive no one will be able to see how you are what conditions you are in even if your toeside you are confined even if the Ministry says giving a mobile phone this leap or take this phone away from you these people have your passport I tell then you say they will deny you a chance to get medical help because they are not sure you may be trying to escape or you may be trying to leak something so the conditions within the domestic work are really not favorable even beyond our ministry you have given an example Philippines and Nepal it's not only Uganda facing this challenge of domestic worker so I think it's even far beyond our our ministry outside merely licensing and doing acquisitions and helping to do brokerage have interested yourselves in the conditions of the homes where these domestic workers work yes we have we have had various members of the Association travel in different countries myself have been to Jordan and I've also been to UAE but other members have been to Saudi Arabia as well and those were people been to the Philippines to try and see how we can learn from them like he has mentioned Philippines when you got there what did you see okay first of all the the households were able to have access to wear of different sizes and different what shall I say social standard social status so the other households which you found had like three domestic workers maybe an African and Asian and maybe a Filipino and in the others which we entered which had just one African or one Ugandan or Kenyan a while and this whenever impromptu visits they were improved to because we just asked to visit and we went and visited in one home actually met a Ugandan was on her way back was she'd not been able to work as able to talk to her I talked to the company that had externalized her and we spoke to their family they actually didn't know that I was coming from Uganda because I went with that they're our counterparts in Jordan and I was able to understand she's not been able to cope up with our work so one of the things that is a challenge for our young people is the inability to work those hours and physically they've been challenged by the weather either it's extremely hot – its creamy cold some have also been affected by the food they've not been able to handle the severe stretches and LaCava all this other car are you selling to people from the brutality of the bosses the employees no we actually for example in in Jordan we have an arrangement with the Association there that this is these are our expectations that the young people should not be beaten this should not be if any employer feels that they are unable to to work with this person they bring them back to the office and most of the offices how about we call accommodation in that accommodation young people are brought back they are cancelled and if they are unable to work we have brought back home so when you hear some people saying we are in this building we are in detention we are in a prison they actually ada an accommodation belonging to the company where the accommodation belong in immigration or accommodation belonging to the police depending on the situation within which they occur how are the elements before we take a break are the Allens about torture and sexual abuse real fake or hyped depending on the situation I could take what I order like the words you've given the alumns are will be are you alarms our guys are being sexually molested and some are fake and it's not my habit that's why I say that I can't take whether what I would prefer like we do it whenever you discovered that this alarm is fake for instance I had a case of a young person whose family came to our office and claimed that she was dead and that they had a witness that show that she was dead that witness had just traveled back from Jordan like a week before the alarm was made they were in my office on a Tuesday we interviewed the the person who gave us that story she claimed that the young woman had been hit behind the head and she had seen her drop dead so I asked her why in the same room she has said yes I was in the same room and I saw have been killed and but I have a number of her parents and that's why I informed them sounds like how did you get to her number before she died well the story went but by the end of the day we had pictures from that office the accommodation where they were and within three days that young woman was back she was met by the anti-trafficking policy named Tara because what she was alleging for squarely in the anti-trafficking act under traffic police met up at the airport tried to interview her and she said she had no problem she had no issue to to explain she kept my office unfortunately I wasn't wise enough to bring media I asked her you are reported dead she was perfectly okay that case broke our hearts because the way that family came in making alarms the whole building came to the office because we knew someone had died under the witness who had seen her die by the end of the day the young woman was apologizing to the family because they were with us the mother the sisters the father had stayed at home ready for to receive their dead young woman it broke our hearts because we did everything to make sure that we find out what had happened or in a sense is it possible to solve with the bad image that's been painted about Labor externalization yes it's salvageable because what you're doing right now is salvaging the bad image I have honorable paka here who's telling you what is happening you have me yesterday you had the a very honorable as long as that happens you we are salvaging they I didn't I'm doing pure let's take a break

48 thoughts on “Labour Export Saga Deepens| NBS Topical Discussion

  1. We shall continue to advocate for the rights of Ugandans here and abroad.

  2. Plz people I beg u stop fooling people it's not about trafficking or right companies all are passing through the same difficulties

  3. Talk of Jordan.walai here in UAE we use our phones freely and we go to banks.though they're there some who suffers but it's not at high like that of Jordan.saud Arabia

  4. Actually thanks for support us, but what I need is look for day in every 6month and come to these countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and Jordan and visit us. u coddinate with our bosses. then u call all the ladies and we have days somewhere sharing our problems with you people. just like meeting. thanks if you do that. am Saudi Arabia. names KISUKI Asia.

  5. UAE prefers Ethiopians to work as maids cos they speak Arabic. My advice to Ugandans planning to move this side the truth is there are so many opportunities this side but if you have no professional skills try to go to Technical institutes and learn emirimu gyemikono because you'll come in a country that isn't yours get into anything because you're desperate mubutuffu obera tolina gwonenya and first things first. Muleke okusosola emirimu nekilala aim high stop going for the worst jobs! Nigerians will spend money for a full year just looking for the best job, Ugandans bwebagya you ask them how can i help akugamba kyona kyona kati such a person obera osubira agenda kugwera wa? kasta osala boarder don't even think about people feeling sorry for you obera oli kululwo eno bulyomu ali bibye so be careful and prepare well before you move cos what will kill you will be desperation

  6. Let the government burn the domestic jobs don't listen that madam because for her she doesn't not feel it or any relatives

  7. This lady is fuckes up. They should remove this position from her and give it to someone who has been in the situation at hand before. It's bad if someone like her will discuss issues where she has never been, she even does not believe someone was tortured, go to the ground dont just sit back in Uganda and eat money and wait to read on social media what's going on and come here to discuss it.

  8. Stupid uae they have access to healthcare and they use their phones. Uae is different. Mr. NJALA TELL YOUR GUESTS TO TALK ABOUT GIRLS IN OMAN AND SAUDI ARABIA, THESE ARE THE COUNTRIES WHERE THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS COMING FRIM. ESPECIALLY OMAN VERY DANGEROUS. Please dont focus on uae.

  9. They have eyes, but don't see. Have 👂 but don't listen. Have a mouth but can't eat. They live the pearl of Africa to go to Hero🔥. Lord have mercy on them.🙏🙏🙏. Amen.

  10. I wonder the kind of person you are you lady weyogeza oluzungu. But please consider the poor people dieing and suffering. Kasita olimukazi. Nawe ozade abaana. Omuntu kyaasiga kyaakungula.

  11. Talk about to the gals died in Oman,Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria,Kuwait but Dubai no torture sebo your talking lies only let ugandans come to Dubai to look for something for their family instead of talking fault news Dubai is okay and safe all companies pays well and maid also paid well and they have day off every Friday so I don't understand even what your talking you get it where because you your rich yourself or some people given you money to talk rubbish to Dubai dam Dubai is my second home

  12. Guys nothing more than Life! Use Legit Companies otherwise, you'll loose life in Middle East! Before you go Due Diligence!

  13. This guy is very right. it will be very hard to ban export of maids coz that's where the companies get money from. imagine a maid is paid 800k but the company gets 3000 dollars

  14. Am in Dubai in a house but they take our passports and hide them very far. D house where i am when i told them i can't manage i need to try another house that they should take me bk to my office where they got me, they said i hv to pay them their money first that i can't just say i want to leave and they just sat yes. So am working on condition bcz i hv nothing to do. So we don't hv our rights as domestic workers

  15. Just get us those ladies who went though this.so that those companies saying that ladies don't suffer we hear what they have to say

  16. You woman which Saudi Arabia are talking about that they have managed.when you call those guys they just ask you that are not paid.l wonder why you ask those people I could just ask you that you look for those ladies lnstand of those nonsense people

  17. Health care is the major problem in this countries they son bother at all even u tell am totally sick they give u just pandol while working

  18. Some basics about human psychology: If someone answers a question' perfectly' with a perfect answer to every question, and responds 'quickly' without thinking about the question – they are lying. That woman is lying. Perfect explanations for every situation tabled, with an example, and she has an answer to EVERY question…… But again, that is Uganda.

  19. Mr Mpaka will people eat frm ur home mbu total ban do u really think of ur statements u arter to the public i wish it was said from adifferent person bt not an MP u r de ones that h've seriously led the country at large into these due to ur personal things that suites ur desires

  20. I hear embassies to hell,how many times we call those so members ,like Mr.yasin wat has he done just eating government money

  21. Nobody can visit any Arab home to ask about amaid instead they can kill that maid there are then because with them amaid is like rubbish

  22. i support the Hon MP, stop the exportation of domestic workers this worker become personal slaves out there, that is if you can hear to the finds the MP put out

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