This week in Bitcoin- 5-31-2019- Glorious toxicity? Transaction cost FUD, Liquid, BSV, FATF, Tether


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
May the 31st 2019 strong hand effected by selling be a unique beast value your
wealth and bitcoin one bitcoin equals one bitcoin this is where the big boys
play yeah sure there’s toxicity but this is
where the big boys play you can ignore that kind of stuff can’t you all right
we’re gonna talk about that in a second but Nima is here he’s in England we got
federico coming in from italy and we got more techs coming in from some
undisclosed location in a time zone near me alright now let us just jump right
into this i’m gonna read you a funny tweet that came from federico I believe
that as a community we should have a discussion about the recent wave of
intolerance against toxic people in Bitcoin with this kind of attitude all
over talented toxic developers will move to other projects which would be a
tragic loss for Bitcoin now of course that is hilarious
tweet it shows how ridiculous all this worrying about toxicity is but the show
is called this week in Bitcoin and a lot of people have been screaming about the
toxicity in Twitter for me it’s just crypto noise it’s ridiculous is
something to ignore but it was a topic this week so we’re just gonna like rip
it off like a band-aid and talk about it right now
vortex what was your thought of thoughts on this drama this over in crypto
Twitter this week well it all started you know pretty much last Thursday or
Friday right it started with um it started with with
a discussion from Lee Cohen over there for up at coin desk I think was Thursday
or Friday which sparked a whole conversation on Bitcoin and crypto
Twitter and then that led into some other stuff between Matt Correll oh and
Samson Mao and some other stuff and so you know it’s this kind of it’s it’s
it’s kind of funny it rides me a little bit of almost of 2017 but this is just
like such a little mild version of it like it’s a little it’s 27 teens a
little baby but really what we have here is just
some misunderstanding as per usual you know this same misunderstanding is
almost kind of what what led to some of the early Bitcoin deranged syndrome
cases that we’ve had from people like some of the rage creators out there and
such but really what it boils down to is just a lot of misunderstanding and even
the leak herself Cohen had actually just recently tweeted I think today or
yesterday where she said she she understands more clearly now what
bitcoiners have gone through and what we’ve had to fight through to be able to
get to where we are for example with the UA SF in 2017 and and things bub even
before that so you know she she has a better understanding of and I think that
that is important because I think the community has a better understanding now
as well so it’s just the community working through it the people working
through it figuring it out what we are and what bitcoin is and it’s just a part
of a greater discussion of as we move forward with with this technology and as
it continues to become more important in all of our daily lives we’re going this
discussion will continue and really what it’s important to remember is that I
think the big takeaway for me and I think a lot of people of course have
said this already but the big takeaway guys of course is at the end of the day
look bitcoin doesn’t care right bitcoin doesn’t care about you bitcoin doesn’t
care about me doesn’t care about my skin color doesn’t care about my race doesn’t
care about my location or any of these these factors bitcoin is just is and it
is a decentralized protocol and it will continue to do the only thing he knows
how to do which is continue to expand and grow that is all at once that is all
it knows and that is all it will continue to do grow in the you know in
the hearts and minds of people across the planet now if you can say what you
want to say in back and forth there’s been so much you know discussion back
and forth on Twitter but I think at this point I think we all understand now that
look there’s Bitcoin is open this con is open source free open source code this
is a fast development anybody and everybody is absolutely welcome and if
you talk to any Bitcoin er that’s been here longer than a couple years they
will absolutely tell you that their experience has been amazing with other
pick winners the people have helped them people have guided them you know if
there’s so many stories out there just one quick example would be some the the
wasabi developer Adam Fisker you know he first came to the Nick Nicholas doe yeah
the creator of BTC paste server he first came to him trying to develop
humble bit and you know he was just like very humbled he was just said like you
know is there any way Nick please that maybe you could just help me a little
bit expecting absolutely nothing and what did
though I do he completely not only helped the centum source code help them
for almost a year in order to be able to get tumbled bit working with n bit R
sorry with um with n Bitcoin which is his Bitcoin in c-sharp library and work
with him for over a year and to get that correct and so now he’s actually since
moved on from tumble bit now to go enjoy with wasabi but this is just an example
small example that if you want help and if you are honest and if you aren’t
really really honest with yourself of what you want the pickling community is
absolutely here to help and this is not going to change or go away this is open
source code these people are helpful these people are great and you know I
can’t I couldn’t be more proud to be a part of of this Bitcoin community Wow
how that like button he really summed it up real nice there remember there’s no
centralized authority in Bitcoin to bring people in or kick people out it’s
it’s decentralized anyone can come in even people you don’t like so uh let’s
hear from NEMA Nima’s gonna leave them early today so let’s hit that and by the
way people at the endless show we’re getting hardcore tank with the Federico
but I Nina what’s what’s your thoughts on this yeah it’s interesting I mean cuz
I guess my perspective is a bit you know different I’m I’m not a developer I
don’t contribute to Bitcoin you know in a technical way I’m on Twitter I’m
mostly listening so I see all this stuff going on and I don’t know I just I guess
I’m a bit surprised that people are talking about some of the people who are
you know saying that it’s toxic and whatever they view it as a community but
why is Bitcoin a community at the end of the day we’re all just trying to use
this digital protocol for money to better our own lives that doesn’t make
us a club it doesn’t make us like you know some kind of group it doesn’t make
us into a social in group or anything like that in my view I don’t identify
with other people that use British pounds as being you know representative
of my views because they choose to transact commerce in that currency and
so I either view the whole thing is being kind of strange I think it’s kind
of arisen out of this the fact that like none of these cryptocurrencies are quite
money yet they still feel a bit like clubs especially they all
coins i think bitcoin is starting to emerge out of that where it’s actually
getting you know an economy and some real liquidity and volume behind it that
it stops feeling so personal you know I think this is just part of growing up
and being something bigger and and I really think the old coins are gonna be
stuck in this you know join our club mode for a long time and I’m really
optimistic that Bitcoin will outgrow this soon and it’s something that you
know won’t play us for too much longer because I just they’re not they’re not
constructive debates that’s what I’ve mainly thought watching the whole thing
I know people gotta get things off their chests and arguments are good for airing
out ideas but I was just kind of like man I hope we can just move past this
and get all these smart people like building again and making this whole
thing better cuz but anyway yeah that’s that’s how I view more
looking sidelines you threw in a nice gem there you do treat you read the
Twitter you’re on the sidelines you’re trying to learn so when you read stuff
like this it’s a complete waste why people spend so much time on it it is
not productive it is not it is not constructive but people like drama and
then you’re absolutely right about the altcoins it’s like a sauna NFL team for
some people I mean they got to get in some shots it’s like a big a big game
well just remember the builders right the builders are building they’re not
talking all day on Twitter right the builders never stop the building just at
one of the throw that in there sorry Adam just the builders never stopped
yeah and let’s let’s talk to one of those builders Federico you’re coming
from toxic Italy because you know Giacomo you you guys are toxic so yeah I
think one of the problems related to toxicity is the fact that okay this
environment is is full of scammers we adored the ICO ordeal coins and the
problem with that is that if you try to be nice with scammers it’s really time
consuming so many people like that are like somewhat involved in Bitcoin
started to to become like very mean with with people because they had to be
meaning with scammers because you cannot waste like time be nice to scammers and
I think this is like what maybe new comers to the space don’t understand is
that there is a reason why this toxicity emerged and but it’s not that those
people are like bad people I mean I know many of those that are positive to be
toxic like Giacomo and like others and in real laughs there there are business
people also like the fact that on Twitter people try to be like the worst
version of themselves so if you see somebody that it’s very
mean on Twitter probably in the real life they are not as bad but at the end
of the day yeah like as you guys already said it doesn’t really matter people
that really matters like developers that don’t really get involved too much in
this kind of drama they don’t really care yeah with Matt Corrado that got
involved but is just like one example out of many people that have contributed
to Bitcoin and so it’s yeah it’s just entertainment sorry I like the Twitter
that you quoted before for me like yeah it’s not that I care too much what they
say was just for fun and I think God for many other people
that got into the drama that they also did it for fun so we shouldn’t we
shouldn’t take this kind of stuff too seriously that’s it
and again there’s plenty of people who hold Bitcoin who don’t know a thing
about crypto Twitter or social media and yeah like that and it’s it’s very it’s
very important to remember you know because a lot of I think a lot of people
that don’t like Bitcoin like to say look how toxic the environment is on Twitter
its Bitcoin is doomed well it’s it’s totally disconnected from the real world
and you like the big banks or the big institutions who are buying Bitcoin
there they’re not on crypto Twitter worrying about drama
I can I can pretty much assure you that now you did you did bring up a very
interesting point that uh you you have you didn’t like the ICO is a lot of
people a stall that people fell for the I SEOs a lot of newbies got caught up in
that and they learned the hard way and I think that’s I think that’s great and I
think it’s also nice that people try to warn others but this week it seems like
people who are willing to fall for just the
anything I mean denna Rico what do you think about the the BSB price this week
did you notice that in Italy that uh this is uh well I’m not following too
much VSV like much but but yeah I saw that the price going up and down but the
fact is that this V is a very illiquid coin so like many others that can be
very easily manipulated so there’s not really much to say about that I mean
yeah it’s gonna be it’s gonna have ups and down like many alkynes and it’s not
very different from like all the other articles that we have out there yeah
remember that people not very liquid so if there was a rich billionaire dude you
wanted to manipulate things he probably could do that just just throwing that
out there but again it is it is an interesting case in I would say naivete
in the crypto space some of the things I hear about bsv I am just shocked I am
really shocked did Nima do you have any thoughts on that
did you notice that this week yeah I mean I saw people like kind of sharing
that the price was going up the kind of people I follow is very much in
anticipation of the dump right because we know how that cycle works and it was
I think it was pretty much like textbook you know it’s just unbelievable that I
guess this is the problem there’s oh there’s we are such a small you know
it’s such a small market share right now there’s gonna be noobs coming into this
space for a long time right until we have mass adoption and the problem is
the scammers that Federico’s talking about they know of that and they know
that there’s always gonna be noobs coming in so there’s always you know
some kind of target for these for these scams and that’s and that kind of ties
back to what we were saying before you know the counterpoint to what I was
saying where that’s not a productive use of time maybe it is a productive use of
time maybe the people that are supposedly talk to toxic or they’re
actually bitcoins immune system right there the antibodies that swarm on you
know this kind of misinformation and just redundant debates and you know
questions they’ve been answered a mean old million times and then try and just
shut that down so the community can move forward that’s another way to look at it
and and I think in a sense you know they they do keep the you know keep the
discourse at a certain quality and prevent it from just becoming constant
you know conversations of the same crap over and over again the same scams
running every time like I appreciate some of those guys shutting this stuff
down harshly from day one maybe that’s a service the immune system I like that I
found that like bug people hey by the way crypto angels said thanks for
sharing what’s up bitcoinmeister thank you for the $4.20 crypto angels good to
see you in there abort well you’ve also given them you know there’s always gonna
be noobs coming in this is true thus there will always be all coins I mean
there’s a lot of people that predict the end of the world for all coins I uh I
don’t see that very soon at all vortex any any thoughts on all coins bsv what’s
been going on this week with that not too much of course the people on the
panel have already said I think as much as we need to say it really it’s just
another pump and dump right all coin there’s not much really there at all but
I would like to come and say that Bitcoin absolutely absolutely has an
immune system to those that have been in the space for years now for at least
more than three or four years they have absolutely seen this immune system
working every day and so across social media across everywhere this is the
immune system that brought us to the UAS f this is why we have Bitcoin that is as
it is today as opposed to BIC when when it could have been for example you know
incorporated into Jeff gars x BTC one library and then we would have just had
a corporate coin right so a Bitcoin is what it is today because of its immune
system because of the people that are out there that are maybe sometimes
labelled toxic quote unquote this is this is just the free market
being a free market so to me you know another pump of BS fee of course it’s
just all on there’s their ridiculous narratives there was a pump with the cop
the copyright you know play a white paper there was a pump with the with
with the conference and so just on and on it go is the it’s always going to be
continued to be pumped but I think I’ve been saying what you’ve been saying
for a while now Adam which is that it is just early days and because it is these
early days all coins will absolutely be with us for years to come
so you can call the death of the cleanse all you want but they were good they’re
gonna be here for years and you know we’re talking minimum years worst case
scenario that could be here for another ten years before the world actually
figures this stuff out understand how small the space is understand how early
we are this is the internet circa 1991 maybe 92 at them at the newest it could
be like 89 because we’re still didn’t with command-line interfaces for a lot
of this stuff so this is very very early stuff we the entire crypto market is 250
billion dollars I mean there’s like there’s there’s trillions of dollars in
assets out there just in gold and precious metals so we are very very very
early and all coins and these scammers are absolutely going to be with us for
awhile and so I think those people out there right right like Brian trolls like
Giacomo like some of the people that may be considered toxic I thank them for
being bitcoins immune system and they will be here make no mistake they will
be here for years to come and here put it in perspective you said it’s a 250
million to 250 billion market now cryptocurrency
how about info cryptocurrency becomes 10 trillion dollar market and Bitcoin has
90% dominance would that would leave a trillion dollars for all the alt coins
to split so they’re not going anywhere under the best-case Bitcoin scenario
with 90% dominance in the 10 trillion market that would still leave a trillion
for all coins to split which is a huge amount of money compared to the whole
spaces 250 billion so it’s just always gonna be pink sheets you know there’s
always going to be those those pink sheet stocks well let’s talk about the
immunity the immune system here some FUD that’s been thrown out there lately and
this is so cyclical all you guys will probably say well but what is this 2017
again they’re doing the and it’s some of the same guys that are seeing this stuff
the transaction fee cause it’s so expensive to send Bitcoin again please
vortex B the immune systems destroy that bug right there for us so which which
one are we talking about that is trans actually cost the Bitcoin also expensive
to send its to its oh man those well maybe yeah oh
maybe the crypto audience out there got caught the bet that was recently made
between never had your very own vase that was pretty hilarious so you know
they were right on stage there and you know tone Benham that he could get a
transaction cleared within 24 hours with a 1 Satoshi byte and it actually cleared
now yes the miners probably put that priority a little bit higher than the
record than a regular transaction but even still the point was but the point
is there you could put 5 Satoshi’s per byte I have never paid this year more
than 5 Satoshi’s per byte and hit is always cleared within an hour maybe 2
hours I mean it’s really really really ridiculous so now of course the fees are
going to rise as because they are priced in Bitcoin and the Bitcoin of course is
priced in dollars so if you want to talk about fees and satoshis provides those
are about the same right that they were a couple years ago but if you want to
talk about the price in dollars well then yes other they are going to rise as
Bitcoin gets more popular Bitcoin is going to need a fee market in order to
survive and right now fees maybe count for 10% maybe 10% of the revenue it’s
all mostly all miners revenue mostly right now is coming from the block
rewards themselves so we are going to absolutely have to have a bigger fee
market but this is this is something to worry about
years and years from now because we have things that are in place right we have
the said wait wait we have a Segway we have people batching companies
batching their transactions we have Lightning Network coming
we have side chains like liquid we have all of these things that are coming we
have noir signatures and other scaling and optimization technologies that are
going to come around to the base chain within the next couple of years there’s
there’s really nothing to worry about in terms of transaction fees in my opinion
of course it’s it’s it’s you have to still keep up with this stuff because
nobody knows this is all an experiment and of course we’re only a decade in so
people will be of course paying attention to this for centuries into the
future but really my current assessment is that we have nothing to worry about
the fees will continue to build we will continue to get a fee market as Bitcoin
becomes more expensive and the base layer does become more of this big
transaction container where one transaction is representative I could be
represented hundreds of thousands of dollars of different people’s you know
value of across the world so I’m really looking forward to to win big when when
when when these other technologies like lightning Network and liquid you know
really start to play a bigger role but for now the base chain is the main place
where people Tran and that is because it’s still super
cheap super easy hey guys this is a reminder he brought off liquid and
lightning at the end of this show Federico is really gonna get into this
stuff he’s got some insider information it’s great but Nima how about you have
you heard this transaction fee fight if do you have anything to say about it
yeah I mean well first of all let me just say I’ve been sending transactions
just like vortex and it actually even through all these fees I haven’t I have
not paid more than one set as a fee so I if you haven’t gone to the website
mempool dot space go check that out it’s absolutely amazing totally incredible
visualization of what the fee market is doing and it even gives you a little
forecast of like the next three blocks which transactions are likely to get in
there you can actually search your transaction and see is it likely to get
in the next block the next next or is it you know somewhere in the mempool and if
you go to that website I think that is a great education tool because that’s when
people will start to see this is a market and bitcoin roughly every ten
minutes just chews through that memo no matter how many transactions come in or
don’t come in and you see these spikes come in and suddenly the mempool fills
up and then you just watch Bitcoin chew down on that every 10 minutes as awesome
to watch actually I spend more time on that website than I should considering
does not act is not actually that entertaining but highly recommend people
go on there it’ll kind of really illustrate what this fee market is if
you want a transaction to definitely go through in ten minutes
place a higher fee it will get prioritized by the miners you’ll see
your transaction slip into the next book and and job done and again the other
thing is I think the only reason this is any fun at the moment is that the
liquidity people have not realized how important is the liquidity of Bitcoin is
if the fees are too high in the future when the liquidity settles on Bitcoin
you will not go to some alt coin because the lack of liquidity will be the
biggest problem you will go to other solutions that use Bitcoin the things
you mentioned like liquid or like lightning you’ll go to layer two
solutions and that’s the right incentive structure we should be moving people to
more efficient ways of using blog space and that’s only
by having fees in place that incentivize that we have low fees forever than ever
one’s going to transact on block and we won’t get the other benefits of
lightning which is like instant transactions and things like that so
just it’s just a quick side note to blocks are now of course consistently
over one megabyte if you go to mempool dot space you will see that they are now
almost all over one megabyte because bitcoin is scaling thanks to segue Wow
hey things are changing pan that like but all these guys are linked to below
Federico are your thoughts on that bud of transaction fee if you have any ok
yes so I think part of the of the problem with transaction fee is that the
algorithm 8 the transaction fee that some was implemented they are still not
that good I mean some wallet are they implemented like better algorithm part
to the last bull market in 2017 while others not that much so it happens that
many Wallace may make user pay more than they should so just recently in the past
few day I did I was doing some transaction using the ledger wallet
which are up and the suggested fee was much higher than reasonable so I put
like a custom fee that was lower than the suggested one and we went through
like very well very quickly so I think like part of the problem that is getting
better over time is that wallet make people pay more than they should and
they were more than wallet exchanges because exchanges they just don’t want
to receive like complains that the transaction is not arrived yet so they
just make you like pay a lot so you’re sure to get it to the first block even
if you maybe don’t really need to get the first block you’re not in a rush but
they make like all the users pay the maximum fee because they don’t want to
receive any kind of like complain and waste time and money with sportacus but
apart from that yeah I agree with everything that was already said that if
the transaction and chain were supership we wouldn’t need stuff like lighting or
liquid or like any kind of scalability solution because
like what would you use laughing well you can like pay one sort of supervisor
on chain so I believe that it’s a good thing that the fears are getting like a
bit higher over time so that there is the right incentives to move to better
technology and also because yeah I mean we cannot expect like to chip to be to
be like free fees to be cheap for a very long time
because otherwise the only thing to do it will be to increase the block size
but yeah like we already know that decreasing the block size is not really
a scrub this solution so we we definitely have to have I fees like very
expensive fee and like other like other layers to have a chip transaction so
that’s the only way we can improve all right now before Nima goes I’m gonna I’m
gonna start here with Nima on this subject matter this uh this F ATF what
is this fine the actual action task force people in Europe have been telling
me about this I really don’t know what it is exactly how it pertains the
Bitcoin do you know anything about this Nima king-king I’m certainly not an
expert on it but I’ve been doing a bit of reading around it and you know I
think essentially the F ATF is an attempt by countries to you know kind of
work collectively to come up with common rules to stop things like money
laundering and and things like that I think that’s the stated objective right
at the end of the day it’s basically like a cartel of states you know that
agreed to collude in order to stop them from undercutting each other and having
different rules and many things such as cracks I’m I’m not surprised that
they’re starting to look at crypto because you know as volume and liquidity
grows obviously you know it’s gonna get the eye of the regulators on it I don’t
actually view this as being a huge problem
again I think Bitcoin is anti fragile and it’s going to adapt if some you know
I don’t know if exchanges are gonna get shut down for not complying or you
come with ownerís kyc procedures and stuff people will migrate to different
exchanges different services things like local bitcoins or you know other ways of
buying that doesn’t go through exchanges and stuff I’m I’m really not sure what
the impact of this is gonna be but it doesn’t trouble me it could slow down an
option in certain countries for a certain amount of time but ultimately
this just proves the be the the the ultimate reason for having Bitcoin right
that should you have to go through this f8 EF to send money to someone you know
like a family member you know that happens to live in a place that you know
isn’t isn’t sanctioned or whatever like for example you know like my family like
our background is Iranian so you know there you have a country that’s like
totally cut off from the whole world economy and for reasons that you can
agree with or disagree with but at the end of the day it is absurd that some
people on this planet can send you no value to other people and other people
cannot so again I view this in this the same vein but it doesn’t trouble me in
the long run I think bitcoins antifragility will find a way to work
around this yeah I think I think it’s a good summary of the situation and they
have been implemented the onerous regulations yet and the KYC stuff so I
mean this is a lot of it just theoretical right now I think there are
people that are quite worried about it I would not get worried about it and again
if this is people will migrate to other exchanges other places to buy it but it
doesn’t stop me from sending my Bitcoin anywhere if I if I control my own
private key perhaps this will affect traders in the
future traders are gonna do what traders are gonna do
Federico you’re in you’re in Europe have you heard about this at all it doesn’t
really bother you well I don’t know too much about it but well in general from
what I understood from reading it it’s like one of those like agencies that try
to propose regulation for governments to implement so it is one of those things
that are going to be like very slow to after yet because if
even if they decide something then they have to send like indication to various
national government okay you should do some legislation that follow these kind
of guidelines and this text like a very long time usually I mean I see it
happens that at the European Union level along with text for stuff to get the
implemented at the Italian level and this is like something even larger so
probably it will take even more but apart from that I believe that if they
this kind of bad regulation in a sense can be good because they will
incentivize people to move to more likely decentralized solutions so likely
centralized exchanges or stuff like local Bitcoin a sapphic that so if they
make it bad enough that make people move to others others like listen resolution
that’s like only a good thing the worst-case scenario is that they make it
bad but not bad enough to incentivize people to move to the central stuff so
they that the situation for the average usually become become like worse than
now but even that like it’s just like a temporary problem because like well when
everybody has Bitcoin we don’t need with this yet become Rob’s anymore so occurs
yeah exactly very very good points all right I don’t that vortex I don’t think
you have anything to say about this thing maybe are you doing okay good good
good he gave me the article Adam okay okay go I have to respect you and do a
little bit of reading it anyway so you know basically I mean first of all guys
local bitcoins is kyc AML now yes so let’s stop using that as the old go-to
example for something that somebody needs for a decentralized type of
solution now of course they’re going to be more and more decentralized solutions
coming out and over the years as this technology gets more and more understood
right and so that’s just a matter of time but so what we’re talking about
here is this this is the the F ATF the the financial attack task force
essentially they’re trying to coordinate international action against exchanges
right and so what we what we see is we’re already seeing some of these
exchanges start to delist coins because of the sec and various regulations
become from the US now this is gonna be this is
technically I guess you call it higher level than that because this is you know
IMF this is global that all the countries have to participate in but but
what I want to note here is that this this this whole ATF FA ATF a global
alliance agreement type of thing between the IMF remember this is a
country-by-country basis so that means we’re talking that this this the sort of
fragile agreement structure that could break down super easy as soon as one
country leaves another could leave and they could start a huge flood with that
going up against bitcoins anti fragile decentralized open state to me of course
just just as no it’s no comparison and it’s like throwing an egg at a brick
wall like that egg is going to just explode there is no going through the
brick wall that is bitcoin however um masane people remember that
quote-unquote managed financial stability doing real well with that guys
you know the 2008 financial crisis six billion people unbanked more money
laundering and corruption every single day from the large banks every single
day that you read the paper like you know so remember who was actually trying
to bring down these regulations and so it only takes one country to pull away
and to disagree and then and then they’re they’re completely just like
they’re completely screwed so bit coin and crypto will continue to to move
through move through this this world and it’s going to have to sort of be a red
pill for some of these regulators and remember again this is fragile versus
anti fragile Bitcoin wins every time when you go up against that and this is
just a sign of the times of where we are in bitcoins history right where we are
this is now a Bitcoin is now being discussed at the g20 summits right this
is this is where we are in bitcoins history back in 2013 I couldn’t even
really have imagined such a thing maybe 2012 even but but now this is
where we are in 2019 we absolutely are you know this is a global economic
conversation and so I think I just see this a sign of the times as Bitcoin
continues to grow and get bigger and bigger and this is just a sign of
writing on the wall they are clearly starting to get afraid now and clearly
starting to not even care that you know the schumacher uh I think his name
Schumacher the recent Senators statements they’re in the US I mean they
just he completely outlined why we need Bitcoin in the first place right and so
that they’re just not even they’re not even afraid of just outright telling
people why crypto is going to and how crypto is going to destroy them they’re
just openly saying it now so yeah this is just where we are
and these it’s just it’s gonna be funny to watch as these people start to get
the red pill from Bitcoin but this is where we are Bitcoin is anti fragile and
as the rest of the panels have said I’m not worried about it at all
NEMA do you have final words before you leave NEMA is emotion he’s got a lot
going on over there yeah I gotta fly sorry um yeah just agree exactly with
what vortex said this is part of growing up you know the bigger Bitcoin gets the
more it’s gonna draw the eye of the regulators I think their actions will be
ineffective ultimately or they will learn to adapt to it or you know accept
it but this is just something that’s gonna happen so let’s get ready for more
attention more discussion more Senate hearings more IMF meetings more all this
and that’s probably a sign the bitcoins doing very well
from our perspective so I’m actually happy for the attention in a way because
I’m not worried about what they can do but I’m happy that we’re big enough that
they actually care yeah yeah right get ready for more hearing because as a
great don’t get flooded out people sorry continue got it oh thanks so much
vortex Mariko Adam thanks a lot I was see ya and check out he is linked to
below NEMA is got a great he’s great on Twitter and he listens to so see ya good
luck with your call man yeah alright so something that’s been not going on this
week also click Beatty tight now I’d love Bitcoin I’d love to hear great
things about Bitcoin but all of a sudden you hear people talking about these
rumors on OTC markets oh the billionaires are secretly buying up all
the Bitcoin Oh what’s going on no it’s gonna be a million dollars tomorrow
again I think I see no proof of this again big you should already know that
bitcoin is scarce people okay you you shouldn’t get like be called
into action just because you hear rumors about something that’s going on OTC and
again you should there should definitely be action on your part already if you
think billionaires are buying up a bunch of Bitcoin then I hope you have some
Bitcoin vortex your thoughts on the rumors on the UH on the clickbait yeah
that’s interesting I mean first of all everybody should know that you know high
net worth individuals have absolutely been buying Bitcoin for you
I mean in the form of family offices and and and and more we just had pomp launch
of recent fund of of tons of like it was like a ten or fifteen it was a huge fun
ten multi-million dollar hedge fund from mostly populated by small family offices
so the these guys I’ve absolutely been buying for years now this particular
rumor that you’re talking about is kind of hilarious because they’re talking
about trying to buy like 25% of avala Bitcoin and of course that just shows
you some what some of these people and really most of the people in the world
just just don’t understand how Bitcoin works yet they don’t understand that
there is literally only about a million coins liquid at any given day on the
exchanges maybe uh maybe twice that maybe maybe one maybe around that in the
OTC markets floating every day but that’s about it maybe a couple million
coins guys at the most floating around the planet in any given time and
liquidity for somebody to buy that is far from 25% of the entire stash so at
this point a Bitcoin is now ten plus years in we have now you know mind over
what 1617 million coins so the vast majority of supply is out there so now
it is now now impossible for some government or some you know billionaire
to go out there and and purchase just like huge percentages of the overall
actual supply of bitcoins so this is just a sign of where we are in Bitcoin
again you know this is a where we are in pushing the liquidity a Bitcoin is a
little bit concentrated right now but it will continue to do what it has done for
the past ten years which is get in the hands of more and more and more and more
people have created more and more wallets create more and more economic
activity bring more and more people in and so I don’t see that going away
anytime soon so it’s just it’s just kind of funniest seeing some of these rumors
but at the end the day guys the cat is out of the bag people have been
accumulating we just had this huge accumulation phase and we spiked up to
9k you know from like three or four K without even retail or really
institutional per se buying yet I mean this is still early days we don’t even
have an ETF yet so we essentially are now big enough to where we can sort of
pump our own bags a little bit because that was pretty much just the crypto
community and that’s just shows you all big the crypto community is now I mean
we’ve got to be getting close to around a hundred million people in this two
hundred fifty billion dollar market but again still
peanuts right still tiny still little droplets in the ocean notes
quiddity that is available to Bitcoin so I thought it was great
we’ll see more and more posts like these and more and more people wanting to
obtain their share of Bitcoin stack those Satoshi’s people again they are
nice stories people you can enjoy a nice story or you could take action and
actually get Bitcoin so that you can look back on these nice stories one day
and say you know what I actually got him before all the billionaires got in if
Federico any thoughts of scarcity and billionaires or what we’re just talking
about yeah well they are like who we are this kind of news like for a very long
time like I remember like I don’t know was like six months ago something there
the Russian government was supposed to buy like ten billion dollars of Bitcoin
something like that did we have any follow up on that I don’t think so
there are news like this like every once in a while that you think there are very
serious also because if somebody buys Bitcoin usually it was to keep it like
confidential it doesn’t advertise it or maybe it does it after I did it so the
price maybe goes up a little bit and you can make a profit so I for sure I
wouldn’t use this kind of information for like trading or for like as an extra
motivation to buy or sell or wherever I think it’s just noise but yeah I mean we
know that the Bitcoin is a it’s a very good asset for our networked individuals
so we should expect them to buy them or regardless of the news and so it either
it is now in the future in the past or they already did it they are gonna do it
this is a kind of asset that it is very good for this kind of like billionaires
that they want to diversify you something that is different from
anything else so so yeah it’s totally reasonable do they do it
but I wouldn’t give too much like credit and importance to this kind of rumors
all right guys in the chat we’ve reached the third the last third of the show so
you guys can ask questions now if you want to black jerboa
sent two dollars in the super chat he said hi okay now another thing that came
out this talk about scarcity and strong hands and people who don’t go
because this week was a roller coaster in terms of Fiat for all you Fiat freaks
especially the last two days but again you should have a strong hand value
you’re awesome Bitcoin not worried about the VI price too much now something that
came out earlier this week was that the amount of Bitcoin addresses with 0.1
Bitcoin in them has reached an all-time high so we have some people we have
people storing Bitcoin thoughts on that vortex if any yeah I mean this is a this
is going to continue right this isn’t gonna slow down so Bitcoin has these
cyclical phases where people buy and sell because bitcoin is still of course
very early days on its march to taking over the world’s liquidity so with it’s
a little hundred fifty billion dollar market cap it’s absolutely going to be
volatile but remember it’s not Bitcoin that’s volatile right it’s the rest of
the world’s currencies that are volatile that are actually being sucked into
Bitcoin so it’s really not a Bitcoin this that’s that’s volatile because what
bitcoin is always one Bitcoin so just keep that in mind but you know that’s
the this uh this volatility on the the other side is going to continue against
Bitcoin as we march up higher and higher so I see that these addresses will
continue to accumulate I’ve been predicting for years and years now that
Bitcoin will continue to get more and more hands as opposed to get more
concentrated it’ll actually get more distributed and more dispersed as
Bitcoin becomes used more and more by more and more people and more and more
applications so I just I think this is absolutely expected and this will
continue and I’m looking forward to to this rising even more all right guys
eventually you’re not gonna be able to afford to get that point one Bitcoin so
remember try to get point 1 then 1 then 2 etc etc well again we know one Bitcoin
equals one Bitcoin but there are other people that value their wealth in
dollars and some people think dollars or tethers and well I’m bringing up tether
right now because Federico is on the show and he’s got some inside
information a story broke and I link to it below and by the way check out all
the links below there was a story about the fat badass also linked to below but
the block crypto says big fin X is looking to launch tether on the
Lightning Network by the end of the year and the exact
says it’s one of the coolest things they’ve ever done tell Rico take it away
what what is this what is going on okay so basically what that is going to do is
okay it wants to support well to be a better supported also on the Latin
Network and the way they plan to do it is to invest in the development of the
RDP protocol so the RGB protocol basically is a new token on the
blockchain protocol that works on top of Bitcoin I think like that the
presentation was like last year on billion Bitcoin by giacomo judgment
Zucco and I’ve been involved in the project from quite a while even before
it was publicly announced I did sort of view on the early version of the project
then I with the commentation I did some testing I think I was the first one to
test it on my net and stuff like that so the goal of this project the this new
tokenization protocol is to have to try to build a new standard because we
didn’t truly have a standard for talking on the blockchain we used to have
counterparty on the layer color coin maybe the only thing that kind of became
a standard was year C 20 on a cheerio which is like super bad for various
reasons basically because it’s on top of it so it has all the problems that the
theorem is and so so now like if somebody wants to issue like a talking
for whatever reason like that error as a body data use case for that there is not
really a standard that you you you can do it on because all the protons they
have their ups and down several sample now you can issue tokens on liquid as
well but liquid is a federated sidechain so you have this trust performance
trade-off that you may not want to deal with and then you have all these new al
coins for for tokens that have other problems and the end you have the all
the token protocol on top of Bitcoin that are not like early smart as they
don’t even use the new technology that we have a bit current now so the algebra
project was okay let’s start to build the standard for token on a Bitcoin that
is as good as possible the problem with the RGB is that at the
beginning it didn’t have much funding so there was just like one developers
working on it and now that developer got are by block streams so is not focus
full-time on RGB anymore so some party seems like the project
would as a like stop it wasn’t growing anymore but now the good news is the
BitFenix and also I think like some other companies has joined to put new
resources on the development of the project so now there is a really a
chance that it can become a standard us know there are resources to make it
become like to develop it and to make it grow because right now it only works on
chain and you have to do it from the comment line so if you’re not ready
unaired it’s not very easy to use it you don’t nobody already developed like a
nice interface to use it so we really need like more more money to put to pay
developers to work on it and BitFenix is doing it why because
BitFenix need this kind of stuff they already have a vendetta use case for
token honorable actions that most people don’t have like because what’s our token
on the blockchain for for ICO utility tokens that they are really like fragile
use cases that are I mean they have volumes they have users they’ve been
around for many years for sure they have like a use case that people care about
so right now they are using mostly omni layer and i think that we have a better
version also on on tea room and some others come coins but the thing is that
now they would like to have something that is better something and I think
they dare call it also to have tatter to be used for not just by traders but also
by everyday people so you have more liquidity and that’s why you need a lot
in network because we threaten naturally can I actually like to ship instant
transaction of data and people can use it like for like maybe to pay for every
day like could I say with their transaction not just for traders I don’t
think that’s necessarily a good thing people should just use Bitcoin but they
have a use case so I mean it’s to them to put the resources into that
and yeah I think it’s very good but the one limitation of the RGB protocol
because if they okay they wanted to be make it compatible with lighting but we
know the plug-in as the liquidity issues so it only works if there is enough
liquidity in the channels to make a transaction possible so if you have a
like to network with low liquidity it doesn’t really work and you said like
with litecoin there is the Latin Network version for litecoin but there is not
much liquidity so it’s not very very usable so the problem is that every
token that wants to be on the left in network it will have the same liquidity
problem it will work on the lighting network only many people use it many
people open color channels so channels that support this kind of token and I
think that are as can do it because it has already as a lot of users so that or
may do it but it’s not something that is going to work for like any kind of like
small like very any kind of talk and so if tokens they don’t have much liquidity
maybe because they are like I’m talking like a security token or like a quit
stalking that they don’t really have much trading activity then they won’t be
really usable on the Latin network but for use cases like that area I believe
the key can work because you can get like enough liquidity to make it work in
the Latin Network so yeah it’s a good news day they put resources into this
because either you like talking maybe some people be with the talks on the
blockchain are useless and I they may be right I don’t have like a clear opinion
on that yet as well but if people who want to do scums at least like to issue
tokens that they like maybe they are not they don’t really need a blockchain but
they do want to do it anyway at least they do it in a good way
so on a good on a good block chain that is Bitcoin with a good protocol
interpolation network so it doesn’t waste too much fear and at least we
don’t like at least resources goes into Bitcoin and not like on other products
right like a tea room it’s like a good thing about RGB is that it’s a good
place to experiment in new technologies so stuff that maybe in the future
implementing to Bitcoin can be experimented before an RGB so I think
like even if you don’t care at all about tokens on the blockchain which is which
is like reasonable still good to have this kind of protocol where people can
can experiment before we move innovation into Bitcoin do you have you had some
hilarious points and everybody heard that this is very dry when he talks with
really 24 parts vortex you have any questions for us
Frederico about this RGV any comments a couple comments I guess I mean just
firstly you know tether right now you know whether you like it or hate it I
mean they were the first sort of stable coin out there there is still a huge
demand for this type of use case and of course it’s mostly from traders and
exchanges but this could this could expand out to other use cases as well
but right now there is just enough there’s plenty of plenty of demand there
just from exchanges and so you know this particular use case is not going to go
away we’re gonna have a few more stable coins maybe one stable coin we’ll even
you know sort of take over other ones but this use cases is needed for the
interim where we transition from fiat to Bitcoin right so that could take decades
so in the interim we do need some kind of interpreting trends you know
something to be able to transfer between Bitcoin and fiat quickly and so this
technically of course teller isn’t technically Fiat right but it is the
closest thing that a trainer can get to a fiat in a very easily easy manner so
that’s that’s just just understand that’s just here to stay you know
whether you like or whether or not like that’s they serve a use case that the
market demands so and then you know right now tether is currently on right
it’s on Omni aetherium and Tron I think they’re gonna try to maybe put it on EOS
and then now of course they’re trying with RGB so it just clearly um you know
bit FedEx doesn’t want tether to go away either other doing everything in there
and in their power to make sure that tether
can’t get shipped down and doesn’t go away what’s really exciting for me
though is that this RGB protocol because you know as long as it’s over Bitcoin
this is what’s exciting for me right so of it over liquid and RGB see I thought
RGB was kind of dead too as well but Frederico said that as
Federico said as much but now it looks like there is this revival and if
there’s anybody that should be putting money into our
to be it should absolutely be the very first stable coin BitFenix right feather
these are the people that should definitely be funding this this is
because this is this is everything that everybody ever dreamed then that’s on a
theory I’m on top of Bitcoin and this is this is native Ikhwan right this isn’t
some other you know alpha coin this is RGB is over a Bitcoin and so just like
liquid is over a Bitcoin yes it’s a side chain but it is over a Bitcoin um so so
these like these these protocols lightning Network liquid and RGB this
this really shows how Bitcoin is evolving to be able to scale to be able
to scale to be able to take on new use cases and it’s exciting for me in that
in that regard I think I don’t really have any questions as much as I want to
just kind of see more and more details come out because it really isn’t a whole
lot of details about RGB in general there’s actually much more details about
liquid out there I think at this point because black stream really wants to
push that out there so I think it’s exciting to see all the cell panel all
the stuff happened over Bitcoin and of course we all predicted this guys we
knew it was all gonna be over Bitcoin there’s just a theorem was kind of a
temporary blip and some of these other chains you know now there’s competition
for aetherium but this is all a bit of a blip when you look at the grand scheme
of things and you’ll see that this liquidity all this liquidity and all
these other chains like eos and like etherium these things out there mostly
just gonna go to Bitcoin once um the the use case once the use case Sark are all
possible over big point because bitcoin is the most stable most secure most
liquid longest chain of history this is the chain that the world really wants
like everybody wants Bitcoin but you know they can’t buy Bitcoin yesterday or
they can’t figure out how to get their use case to work with Bitcoin so will
they do something else but they originally wanted Mick when they all
originally want Bitcoin and so on Bitcoin is going to be able to deliver
it takes a little bit more time than the other chains obviously because it is the
only actual decentralized chain out there are the only decentralized public
blockchain in production today and so it does take a little bit longer than
everybody else but this is absolutely coming and this is actually this is
absolutely exciting and whether you like tokens or not Federico I mentioned some
of these use cases that could be there for like stable coins like
experimentation stuff that could maybe possibly see its way into Bitcoin
someday so I really really exciting to see and I’m just just just awesome I
mean just liquid RGB lightning this is very exciting stuff and just one final
point like I said Federico this kind of only works if lighting Network can get
liquidity so I think this will absolutely bring more liquidity to light
Network as well and late neighbours light network is already like
exponentially growing guys like it’s already exponentially more getting more
channels and more liquidity so that’s gonna be good and matter what but now
you know you throw a tether on top of it this might bring a bunch more liquidity
to an end to a great point you said if you’re gonna try to launch tokens you
don’t I mean lighting Network really isn’t the
place to do it because it because it does need if you really do need that
liquidity so I think something more like a liquid would make more sense if your
token does need like just huge amounts of liquidity fast because this is no
less the main use case scenario for for liquid so that’s really really exciting
so just really really this is just amazing technology guys it’s coming down
for Bitcoin and I couldn’t be more excited
Wow well arch DB last longer than RBG Federico any thoughts on what wort X
said and can you tell us about liquid some more you mentioned liquid
previously but I thought you might have some follow-up to vortex and go ahead
with the liquid well yeah I played a little bit with liquid as well and my
opinion on that is that it’s a very different model from HP or from talking
on Bitcoin in general because we you basically have a different trust model
so you have all the advantages that liquid the s that the yes computational
transaction confidential asset yes like cheaper fees it’s you have a faster
blocks away yep all this kind of stuff but then you
have to deal with the fact that it’s a federated searching so depending on the
use case that would be acceptable or not and I think it’s good to have both so I
believe I’m expecting many companies to prefer to go on on something like liquid
because they don’t truly have this problem of trust because they are used
to trust like other intermediary other other companies to deal with their
financial transaction stuff so I’m pretty like big companies to like more
like incumbent or traditional companies to to to use much something more like
liquid because they have all the advantages but they don’t care too much
about the trust problem and some even prefer to have like somebody they can
talk with if they have problems so at least a of this kind of Federation
that is also like you manage it by lick by Bloxom that to provide support so
they day of something that case somebody they can talk with and many people like
it and for like for people that for other people that actually need the
perfect rusted Ness because they cannot like trust anyone because they their use
cases is very delicate in may have some some problem depending on the
jurisdiction and stuff like that that can use RGB that that it can also work
on lighting so you can also have a cheap transaction is exactly more difficult
because the likeliness like more complex usability
but it’s good to have but that’s it yeah those great real quick just want to say
that was awesome I outlined the use cases with these different trust models
guises do you can pick your trust model now lightning liquid or base chain and
that’s just fascinating Wow hey man we’re evolving here now we got a
question from Roman Q and I think I’ll address this to vortex do you think the
record number of addresses that hit point one Bitcoin because they are
wasabi outlets outputs excuse so I don’t think we have quite that many wasabi
coin joins yet guys but it is absolutely growing though I mean every single I
think the largest one I saw the largest coin join us on was around 100 people
there might be ones that were bigger than that but that was largest one that
I saw so you know it we’re slowly getting there guys but no it’s I don’t
think that would that would cause the the massive spike of 0.1 but this is
absolutely cool that that wasabi is growing and it absolutely encourages you
to have to put your coin you know in multiple wallets don’t put all your coin
in one wallet guys yeah hey and I’d like to hear people bringing up with sabe I’m
sure you got thoughts on that vortex yeah you recommend it yeah absolutely I
mean it’s it’s the the newest version actually is just amazing like though the
user interface is really easy to work with there’s more and more people on
there so you can get your your coin joined quicker than faster than ever so
if the fees are just just brutally small it’s it’s absolutely mixing because you
know I remember Adam Fisker was like look there’s all these mixers services
out there and they’re charging these huge percentages and they just throw
centralized and they just keep getting shut down what if I were to create a
service you know where there was wasn’t it where there’s a wallet where you
could just pay a little fee and you know join
with a bunch of other people completely anonymously decentralized and Adams idea
of wasabi wallet is like it’s here and it’s amazing and I can’t believe that it
actually exists but it absolutely is here and it is the safest easiest way to
mix your coins and I recommend that everybody makes it mix your coins as
much as possible like especially for sending to and from an exchange mix that
coin before it after telling that like button hey Federico we’re we’re reaching
the end of the show here anything going on in Italy anything that you want to
bring up that hasn’t been brought up any comments or anything more Texas said the
floor is yours here okay though yeah just to record regarding wasabi I think
like it’s very good that we finally have something that it’s it’s usable that
there’s a user interface that is comparable to other wallis to conjoint
because before was i being using cohen-chang was very difficult and the
fact that couldn’t join you cannot do it hello we need other people the fact that
few people were doing it or making it even more like difficult to use so I
think that something like wasabi was something that we really need it and
it’s great to have and I also seen that now like some III really op that like
exchanges and companies that manager love the transaction will try to
implement it as a standard because it would be a great way to to to make all
those chain analysis company go bankrupt basically because they don’t have a
business anymore and also I think it’s good that we have privacy on bitcoins so
we don’t have people don’t have to go to alcohols to a price anymore so we don’t
need like Manero successional it kind of stuff anymore i think like wasabi is
good enough privacy for like most use cases and so we have another use case
that is not on alchemist anymore in this back on bitcoin all right and any other
conclusion area remarks well what final just just from a geeky
developer point of view wasabi of course is are using Nick Nicholas stories and
Bitcoin library and that is of course written in C sharp so Microsoft fanboys
rejoice alright all you tech heads out there
Frederico any any final thoughts okay no I think that that’s about this nothing
nothing going on Italy yeah nothing particular I mean nothing
that is not happening in the rest of the world so it’s quite quite of a global
market now there so yeah there is nothing like that in the individual
countries is that me more than other places I guess global market I love it
well thank you for being on the show Federico we’ll let it for Tech’s have
the final word vortex anything we leave left out anything you want to bring up
any subject matters any conclusionary remarks it’s yours that’s about it I’ll
make sure of course to check out all my shows over there at the crypto Cass
Network you can follow me at the one vortex on Twitter and yeah there’s a
pretty nice conference coming up on San Francisco June 25th
if you guys are you know in the area you definitely check that out because
there’s just a whole lot of bitcoiners coming to that one and it’s going pretty
fun I think there’s good there’s only like two scammers going you know like
Jehan and Erik Voorhees but everybody else is actually Bitcoin Bitcoin hollers
of last resort so it’s gonna be pretty fun if you guys want to have a good time
I might troll jihad all right we’ve got some hilarity on the show today too I
got I gotta say all right I get all these of all three guests their link to
below follow them on Twitter well that is the
end of show it was a rock and one we had tech stuff we had it all i’m adam
meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister members subscribe this channel
like this musician this video check out all the links below I do this this week
in Bitcoin show every Friday I do a new show here every single day tomorrow
night I I will be back with the Beyond Bitcoin show everyone shabbat shalom
see you later pound that like button thanks all bye

5 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 5-31-2019- Glorious toxicity? Transaction cost FUD, Liquid, BSV, FATF, Tether

  1. Good show and guests as usual. Bitcoin halving hype another day closer ..🌬…🏄‍♂️

    ‘The biggest supply shock in the history of financial markets’

  2. Great show! You have some of the best guests in Crypto. Just hearing about mempool.space alone was cool.

  3. Have a look at mempool.space now…. 44,000 transactions waiting… it was only 4000 yesterday… Bch spamming / jamming again?

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